CB2 Posted September 14, 2019 at 12:48 AM Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 at 12:48 AM So we have a member that is going to receive a disciplinary letter which will be finalized at a meeting, down the road. Removal of said person from the board. However, we don't think they will come to that meeting. How is that handled if they don't show? We know they have a right to vote for themselves to stay of the board. When they are disciplined they also aren't allowed to do anything board related until the appeal is finalized. What are the proper steps for this? Also, the board member lives in another state than the meeting place. All flights are usually paid for by the Association, are we still supposed to pay for a flight for this person? CB2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted September 14, 2019 at 02:41 AM Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 at 02:41 AM 1 hour ago, CB2 said: So we have a member that is going to receive a disciplinary letter which will be finalized at a meeting, down the road. Removal of said person from the board. However, we don't think they will come to that meeting. How is that handled if they don't show? RONR doesn't say (though your Bylaws should) but I don't think you can go wrong in sending it by Registered Mail to the member with a requirement it be signed for as proof it was received. Quote We know they have a right to vote for themselves to stay of the board. When they are disciplined they also aren't allowed to do anything board related until the appeal is finalized. What are the proper steps for this? The details on how this "Appeal" is conducted should be in your Bylaws. Quote Also, the board member lives in another state than the meeting place. All flights are usually paid for by the Association, are we still supposed to pay for a flight for this person? Again those details should be located in the organization's rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted September 14, 2019 at 09:18 AM Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 at 09:18 AM (edited) 8 hours ago, CB2 said: So we have a member that is going to receive a disciplinary letter... If you haven't already, give a close reading to Chapter XX, particularly starting on page 654. It pretty well covers all the steps, if your bylaws don't. Edited September 14, 2019 at 09:20 AM by jstackpo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted September 14, 2019 at 10:52 PM Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 at 10:52 PM 13 hours ago, jstackpo said: If you haven't already, give a close reading to Chapter XX, particularly starting on page 654. It pretty well covers all the steps, if your bylaws don't. Yes, but I don’t think Ch. XX answers any of the OP’s specific questions. RONR does not describe the process of “finalizing a disciplinary letter,” It has no appeal process for discipline, and it has nothing regarding who pays for flights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted September 14, 2019 at 11:54 PM Report Share Posted September 14, 2019 at 11:54 PM 1 hour ago, Josh Martin said: Yes, but I don’t think Ch. XX answers any of the OP’s specific questions. Well, it does say that until the discipline is imposed, the member retains their rights. So, presumably, at this stage the member would still be entitled to have their flight paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted September 16, 2019 at 01:47 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 at 01:47 PM On 9/14/2019 at 6:54 PM, Atul Kapur said: Well, it does say that until the discipline is imposed, the member retains their rights. So, presumably, at this stage the member would still be entitled to have their flight paid for. I would not make this presumption based upon the facts presided, since all that we have been told so far is that flights are usually paid for by the Association. I do not know whether this is merely a custom, or if there is in fact a rule granting members a right to have their flights paid for by the association (and if the latter, whether there are some circumstances where this rule does not apply, since it is only “usually” and not “always”). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted September 16, 2019 at 02:55 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 at 02:55 PM Not sure why we're picking this particular nit, but... I acknowledged that it was a presumption by use of the word "presumably". Presumption is, at least in this case, based on probability, and the word "usually" was enough for me to determine that it was more probable than not. I did not make a definitive pronouncement because that would have been presumptuous. And, reverting to parliamentary questions, even if there was not a rule, the removal of an entitlement that is given by custom would still amount to discipline, which has not yet been decided / imposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted September 16, 2019 at 06:47 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 at 06:47 PM 3 hours ago, Atul Kapur said: And, reverting to parliamentary questions, even if there was not a rule, the removal of an entitlement that is given by custom would still amount to discipline, which has not yet been decided / imposed. I disagree. If it is merely customary to provide flights to members, the assembly may deviate from this custom in a particular case by majority vote. No disciplinary procedures are required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted September 16, 2019 at 10:25 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 at 10:25 PM 3 hours ago, Josh Martin said: the assembly may deviate from this custom in a particular case by majority vote. Even if it's retroactive? In this case the motion would be considered at the meeting to which the member has already flown. And even if it's not retroactive, you're suggesting that a motion to remove travel reimbursement from one member only would not be seen as disciplinary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted September 17, 2019 at 01:14 PM Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 at 01:14 PM (edited) 14 hours ago, Atul Kapur said: Even if it's retroactive? In this case the motion would be considered at the meeting to which the member has already flown. And even if it's not retroactive, you're suggesting that a motion to remove travel reimbursement from one member only would not be seen as disciplinary? If it is merely a custom to reimburse members for their flights, no rule in RONR prevents the assembly from deviating from this custom in a particular case, even if the flight has already occurred. I have no disagreement that a motion to remove travel reimbursement for a particular member is “disciplinary” in a more general sense of the word, but it does not require formal disciplinary procedures to take such an action. A custom, in my view, is not sufficient to create a right which may be removed only through disciplinary procedures. Edited September 17, 2019 at 01:15 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2 Posted September 17, 2019 at 08:41 PM Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 at 08:41 PM Thank you for all the information. They resigned from the board so the situation took care of its self. CB2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted September 18, 2019 at 01:50 AM Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 at 01:50 AM Until the next time. I would take this as an opportunity to clarify and remove any ambiguity before the next time it happens again. (as an analogy, using the time you visited the emergency department for chest pain as an opportunity to finally backup the computer; update your file of important documents, e-documents, and passwords; stop smoking, etc, even though they didn't find anything dangerous during the visit.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2 Posted September 18, 2019 at 08:32 PM Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2019 at 08:32 PM So very true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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