Making a Motion

[Guest Tom Cooper]

Hello

Can someone possibly give me some comments on whether or not the simple making of a motion is an automatic affirmative vote when the question is called? As elementary as it seems, that topic lead to a 45 minute debate, and ultimately the motion was withdrawn, but passed in favor of an amended motion by another party, who made the motion and also voted.

I have not read Roberts line by line, but have completed a quick search and cant find anything.

Thank you 

Tom

[Dan Honemann]

The answer to the question you have asked is no, the simple making of a motion is not an automatic affirmative vote when the question is called. The maker of a motion may vote either for or against his motion when it is voted on, or abstain from voting, just as any other member.  

[Guest Tom Cooper]

Mr. Honemann, thank you sir. To yo happen to have a reference section in Roberts or other publication that I can find?

[Richard Brown]

1 minute ago, Guest Tom Cooper said:

Mr. Honemann, thank you sir. To yo happen to have a reference section in Roberts or other publication that I can find?

I'm not Mr. Honemann (nor nearly as knowledgeable as he is!), but see if this provision on page 393 of the current 11th edition of RONR answers your question:

REFRAINING FROM SPEAKING AGAINST ONE'S OWN MOTION. In debate, the maker of a motion, while he can vote against it, is not allowed to speak against his own motion. He need not speak at all, but if he does he is obliged to take a favorable position. If he changes his mind while the motion he made is pending, he can, in effect, advise the assembly of this by asking permission to withdraw the motion (pp. 295–97). (Emphasis addded)

[George Mervosh]

In case Mr. Honemann is on the Bay (I hope he is):

" In debate, the maker of a motion, while he can vote against it, is not allowed to speak against his own motion."  RONR (11th ed.), p. 393 

and

"Although it is the duty of every member who has an opinion on a question to express it by his vote, he can abstain, since he cannot be compelled to vote. "  RONR (11th ed.), p. 407 - note that there is no exception stated for the maker of the motion.

[Osmigo]

So how would that withdrawal actually work? The debate is going on, and the maker of the motion suddenly asks to withdraw the motion.  According to RRO, he asks permission from the assembly. So would that be a motion, or a vote, or what?  I'm also considering that the motion has been seconded, which means that somebody besides him feels it is worth discussing.

Edited August 21, 2020 at 11:01 PM by Osmigo

[Atul Kapur]

Yes, a motion and a vote (or unanimous consent). See pages 297-298.

[Josh Martin]

58 minutes ago, Osmigo said:

So how would that withdrawal actually work? The debate is going on, and the maker of the motion suddenly asks to withdraw the motion.  According to RRO, he asks permission from the assembly. So would that be a motion, or a vote, or what?

"To withdraw a motion that is before the assembly, the member who made it may use this form:

MEMBER A (who made the motion): Madam President, I ask permission [or "leave"] to withdraw the motion. The chair treats this first as a unanimous-consent request. That is, if no one objects, the announcement is:

CHAIR: Unless there is objection [pause] the motion is withdrawn.

If there is an objection, the chair of his own accord can put the question on granting the request, or any member can move "that permission to withdraw the motion be granted." If a member other than the one making the request made the motion, it does not require a second, since the maker of the motion to grant permission and the maker of the request surely both favor it." (RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 296-297)

59 minutes ago, Osmigo said:

I'm also considering that the motion has been seconded, which means that somebody besides him feels it is worth discussing.

The motion certainly could be made and seconded again by other members, one of whom may well be the original seconder.

"After a motion has been withdrawn, the situation is as though it had never been made; therefore, the same motion can be made again at the same meeting." (RONR, 11th ed., pg. 297)

[Osmigo]

Thanks - but can you clarify the language here? 

"...If there is an objection, the chair of his own accord can put the question on granting the request..."

What does that mean,  "...can put the question on granting the request"?

[Richard Brown]

4 minutes ago, Osmigo said:

Thanks - but can you clarify the language here? 

"...If there is an objection, the chair of his own accord can put the question on granting the request..."

What does that mean,  "...can put the question on granting the request"?

Member A:  Mr. Chairman, I would like to withdraw my motion.

The Chair:  Member A has asked permission to withdraw his motion.  Is there any objection?

Member B:  I object.

The Chair: There is an objection.  All those in favor of allowing Member A to withdraw his motion say Aye.  All those opposed say No.  the  Ayes have it and the motion is withdrawn.  (Or, the no's have it and the motion is not withdrawn).

[Osmigo]

Am I correct in understanding that withdrawal occurs before the vote, i.e., during debate, while a request to reconsider is after the vote?

[Atul Kapur]

Yes, that is correct. Another important difference is that Withdrawal can only be moved by the person who made the motion in the first place, while Reconsider can be moved by anyone who voted on the prevailing side during the vote.

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Atul Kapur said:

Yes, that is correct. Another important difference is that Withdrawal can only be moved by the person who made the motion in the first place, while Reconsider can be moved by anyone who voted on the prevailing side during the vote.

Well, a minor quibble:  If the member who made a motion (Member A) requests permission to withdraw it and there is an objection, and if the chair does not put the question to a vote himself, any member may move that the request of Member A to withdraw his motion be granted.  RONR (1th ed), page 297:  "If there is an objection, the chair of his own accord can put the question on granting the request, or any member can move "that permission to withdraw the motion be granted." If a member other than the one making the request made the motion, it does not require a second, since the maker of the motion to grant permission and the maker of the request surely both favor it.
A request for permission to withdraw a motion, or a motion to grant such permission, can be made at any time before voting on the question has begun, even though the motion has been amended, and even though subsidiary or incidental motions may be pending.  (Emphasis added).

[Atul Kapur]

The important point is that only the mover can initiate / request the withdrawal. 

Someone who did not make the main motion cannot move to grant permission, as you state, if the mover hasn't made the request. They can suggest that the mover withdraw, but it is up to the mover whether to do so.

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Atul Kapur said:

The important point is that only the mover can initiate / request the withdrawal. 

Someone who did not make the main motion cannot move to grant permission, as you state, if the mover hasn't made the request. They can suggest that the mover withdraw, but it is up to the mover whether to do so.

Yep, agreed!