I'm told Robert Rules can't apply here

[jhk13]

Good Evening,

At our last Municipal Council meeting we had a Councillor who was on the losing side of a vote.  That Councillor asked for a reconsideration vote.  I called point of privilege that because that Councillor wasn't on the the side that passed or won that motion they can't call for a reconsideration vote or we will be calling them after every vote.

The Mayor asked our Legal staff who said that we don't have that wording in our procedural bylaw as other municipalities do therefor that rule doesn't apply to us.

The next day I emailed our CAO and said that I was taught whenever something is not written in our procedural bylaw we default to 2.1c. (see below) I also asked our CAO if my belief isn't true what does 2.1c mean. 

PART 2 - GENERAL APPLICATION OF THIS BY-LAW                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2.1 General Application                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                c) All points of order or procedure for which rules have not been provided in this bylaw shall be decided by the Chair in accordance, as far as is reasonably practical, with the rules of parliamentary law as contained in ROBERT’S Rules of Order.

The response was,

"You are correct that Section 2 provides that if there is a situation where the Procedural By-law does not speak to a matter or have rules relating to a matter, then we fall back to Robert’s Rules of Order for guidance. This is a general provision which features in many procedure by-laws and is the go-to set of rules when a Procedure By-law does not address a specific situation.

 

As such, the way it works is that if our by-law does not have a set of rules or procedures for a situation then we adopt those set out in Robert’s Rules. However, if our by-law does speak to a specific procedure, there is no need to refer to Robert’s Rules because when Council turned its mind to setting out the rules for reconsideration (in the creation of the by-law itself), it set the rules.

 

At last night’s meeting, a specific procedure was raised—the matter of a reconsideration. While Robert’s Rules notes that reconsiderations should be brought forward by a member who voted on the prevailing side, (OUR) Procedural By-law sets out very specific rules around reconsideration which does not include that a member from a prevailing side must move the reconsideration. In this case, (OUR) does have a specific rule about reconsiderations, and as such, there is no need to fall back to Robert’s Rules for guidance."

 

I understand this answer back as, because we have a few Reconsider rules in our procedural bylaw, that Roberts Rules Of Order CAN NOT apply. I worry this also means the same in all other area's as well.  I find it confusing now with this answer. I believed Robert's Rules of Order carried more weight than what I'm being told.

 

Am I wrong in thinking Robert Rules does apply to situations like this where it's not specifically mentioned under a subtitle?

I added our complete Reconsider Bylaw section below just in case it is needed as a reference. 

 

Thank You,

jhk

 

9.15 Motion to Reconsider
a) A motion to reconsider
24
i. is not debatable
ii. is not amendable
iii. requires a two-thirds vote of the whole number of members
voting
iv. shall be in writing
b) A notice of a motion to reconsider shall be in writing and shall be given at least ten (10) days prior to the meeting of Council at which the motion to reconsider will be voted upon.
c) If the action approved in the motion cannot be reversed, the motion cannot be reconsidered.
d) A member may give notice of reconsideration of a matter at any meeting following the meeting when the matter was considered.
e) No discussion of the main question which is proposed for reconsideration shall be allowed until the motion to reconsider is carried by two-thirds vote of the whole number of members voting.
f) No motion shall be reconsidered more than once during a period of twelve months following the date on which the question was decided.
g) When a motion to reconsider is brought before a succeeding Council, all of the above provisions will apply to the motion.
h) The following motions cannot be reconsidered :
i) To adjourn
To recess
To suspend the rules
To reconsider
Planning Act items

[Richard Brown]

Untimately, this is going to be a matter of your council interpreting its own rules, something only your members can do.  We cannot do that for you.

In my personal opinion, the rather detailed provisions on reconsideration in your own special rules of order are detailed and specific enough that I think they trump or supersede the rules on reconsideration in RONR.   The fact that a two thirds vote is necessary to reconsider, rather than a majority, may well be your council's way of offsetting or balancing out the fact that it permits any member to move to reconsider rather than just a member who voted on the prevailing side.

Edited to add:  Some may take the approach that the rules on reconsideration in RONR apply unless specifically contradicted by your own rules.  In my opinion, that is also a reasonable interpretation, but I choose to think that your rules are thorough enough to make the rules in RONR on reconsideration inapplicable... or at least so with regard to the rule that only a member who voted on the prevailing side can move to reconsider.  I believe the two-thirds vote requirement to reconsider is designed to offset that particular rule in RONR.  Ultimately your council has to decide that issue.

Edited February 20, 2021 at 02:04 AM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[J. J.]

Your bylaws supersede the rule in RONR (2:12).  From what you have posted, this bylaw supersedes RONR. 

[Atul Kapur]

I agree with Mr. Brown and J.J.

In particular, 9.15 (d) in the bylaw convinces me that the bylaw supersedes RONR.

[Weldon Merritt]

45 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:

In particular, 9.15 (d) in the bylaw convinces me that the bylaw supersedes RONR.

Certainly looks like it to me, too.

[jhk13]

Thank You All for taking the time to answer my concern.  I have lots to learn and you have no idea how valuable I find this forum.

Thank You Again,

jhk

[Guest Puzzling]

There are some differences between the bylaws rule and the RONR rule.

The bylaws rule is more like the RONR motion to "rescind or amend something previously adopted" than the RONR "reconsideration" motion.

- the bylaws motion is for reconsidering at a later meeting (RONR forbids that in its version)

But even for a motion to reconsider at the same meeting in the bylaws rule has priority over RONR.

Makes me puzzle do your bylaws have a section about a motion to rescind or amend something previously adopted?