Proper way to hold multiple winners elections

[Guest Puzzling]

I thought know how to do this , but I was wrong. Elections always seem to be more complicated than expected.

And it looks like RONR does not give guidance an it. 

So here the problem:

An organization has to elect three general directors by mail in voting.

There are 6 nominations.

- how many candidates may the members put on their ballot? (3 seems reasonable but can result that 4 candidates get a majority, what to do then?) 

After all ballots are received:

- how do you decide what a majority is if not all ballots have the maximum number of different candidates?

(We want to keep the rules

- to be elected a candidate needs to be on a majority of the ballots,

- incomplete ballots count are valid for the number candidates mentioned and as as partial abstentions for the rest

What would be the proper rules for this kind of election?

 

 

[Dan Honemann]

I think if you read what is said in 46:33 very carefully you will find your answer.

[Josh Martin]

3 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

And it looks like RONR does not give guidance an it. 

Sure it does.

3 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

how many candidates may the members put on their ballot?

Up to three.

3 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

(3 seems reasonable but can result that 4 candidates get a majority, what to do then?) 

"If more candidates receive such a majority vote than there are positions to fill, then the chair declares the candidates elected in order of their vote totals, starting with the candidate who received the largest number of votes and continuing until every position is filled. If, during this process, a tie arises involving more candidates than there are positions remaining to be filled, then the candidates who are tied, as well as all other nominees not yet elected, remain as candidates for the repeated balloting necessary to fill the remaining position(s)." RONR (12th ed.) 46:33

3 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

how do you decide what a majority is if not all ballots have the maximum number of different candidates?

"In an election of members of a board or committee in which votes are cast in one section of the ballot for multiple positions on the board or committee, every ballot with a vote in that section for one or more candidates is counted as one vote cast, and a candidate must receive a majority of the total of such votes to be elected." RONR (12th ed.) 46:33

3 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

We want to keep the rules

- to be elected a candidate needs to be on a majority of the ballots,

- incomplete ballots count are valid for the number candidates mentioned and as as partial abstentions for the rest

Yes, all of this is correct.

3 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

What would be the proper rules for this kind of election?

These rules are discussed in RONR (12th ed.) 46:33.

The fact that the election is conducted by mail-in voting, in and of itself, does not change anything about how these rules are applied. Many societies, however, find that conducting additional rounds of voting in an election by mail is impractical, and such an organization may therefore wish to adopt rules providing for a plurality vote or preferential voting. Rules for breaking ties could also be advisable.

[Guest Puzzling]

Do you select the second (and third) director by 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNxwMdI8OWw

(Sorry only could find an you tube link)

Or as advised by

https://math.byu.edu/~jarvis/Voting.html 

Or an other way?

 

[Richard Brown]

52 minutes ago, Guest Puzzling said:

Do you select the second (and third) director by 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNxwMdI8OWw

(Sorry only could find an you tube link)

Or as advised by

https://math.byu.edu/~jarvis/Voting.html

Or an other way?

 

Neither. You do repeat balloting as required by 46:33 -  46:36 unless the organization  adopts another method, such as election by plurality or some form of preferential voting as decided upon by the organization. Note that preferential voting, to be utilized, must be expressly permitted in the bylaws. 

Edited to add: For preferential voting, see 45:62 - 45:69.   Note also that election by plurality, if it is to be used to elect officers, must be authorized in the bylaws. 44:11. 

Edited March 16, 2021 at 03:52 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Atul Kapur]

1 hour ago, Guest Puzzling said:

Do you select the second (and third) director by 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNxwMdI8OWw

(Sorry only could find an you tube link)

Or as advised by

https://math.byu.edu/~jarvis/Voting.html

Or an other way?

 

You seem to assume that your bylaws give you the authority to do mail-in voting and, further, that mail-in voting means that there can only be one round of balloting. You need to confirm the first assumption and drop the second.

Unless your bylaws specifically allow for preferential balloting, then you cannot do that, even if you do it by mail. And, yes, that may mean that you have to mail out a second ballot (or a third or even more, depending on the results).

[Josh Martin]

7 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

Do you select the second (and third) director by 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lNxwMdI8OWw

(Sorry only could find an you tube link)

Or as advised by

https://math.byu.edu/~jarvis/Voting.html

Or an other way?

If the organization's rules are silent on this matter, then the manner in which the three directors are selected is as follows:

• If exactly three candidates obtain a majority, those three candidates are elected.
• If more than three candidates obtain a majority, then the three candidates who obtained the greatest number of votes are elected. If this is not possible due to a tie (suppose, for instance, that there is a tie for third place), then the candidates not affected by the tie are elected, and another round of voting is held for the remaining seats.
• If fewer than three candidates obtain a majority, then the candidates who obtained a majority are elected, and another round of voting is held for the remaining seats.

"The term preferential voting refers to any of a number of voting methods by which, on a single ballot when there are more than two possible choices, the second or less-preferred choices of voters can be taken into account if no candidate or proposition attains a majority. While it is more complicated than other methods of voting in common use and is not a substitute for the normal procedure of repeated balloting until a majority is obtained, preferential voting is especially useful and fair in an election by mail if it is impractical to take more than one ballot. In such cases it makes possible a more representative result than under a rule that a plurality shall elect. It can be used with respect to the election of officers only if expressly authorized in the bylaws." RONR (12th ed.) 45:62

If the organization does adopt rules for some form of preferential voting, then the rules should specify exactly how that works. Such a system could resemble either of the links you have provided, or it might be something completely different.

"When this or any other system of preferential voting is to be used, the voting and counting procedure must be precisely established in advance and should be prescribed in detail." RONR (12th ed.) 45:68

If you are referring to the form of preferential voting discussed in RONR (12th ed.) 45:63-67, it should be noted that this method is included as an illustration of one possible method which could be used, and is not the "default" method for an organization using RONR. As previously noted, an organization does not use preferential voting at all unless its rules provide for it, and if the rules do provide for it, they should also specify how it works.

I'm not sure that procedure works like either of the procedures you're referring to. How it generally works (for electing three candidates) is:

• Separate the ballots into piles based on their first choice.
• Eliminate the smallest pile and redistribute the ballots based on the highest-ranking choice remaining.
• Rinse and repeat until 1) three candidates have a majority or 2) there are only three candidates left.
• If there is a tie in a winning position, the tie is broken based on the number of first choice votes.

Once again, this is simply an illustration and is only one possible procedure. There are many different ways to do preferential voting.

Edited March 16, 2021 at 10:09 PM by Josh Martin