Amending a budget after approved

[Guest Maureen Suseck]

According to Robert's Rules, can a budget be amended after it has been approved? I belong to a non-profit community organization and we find that several operating expenses are running higher than had been budgeted. One of our members told us that we cannot amend (by member vote) the budget. If we can't amend then we will need to bring every overage bill/charge to member vote. Amending would be easier but we want to handle this correctly. Does anyone have the answer to this? Thanks.

[Joshua Katz]

Who adopted the budget? The body that adopted it can (so far as RONR is concerned) amend it by adopting the motion Amend Something Previously Adopted. It requires a 2/3 vote, a majority vote with notice, or a majority of the entire membership (of the appropriate body) voting in the affirmative.

If the board adopted it, then the board can amend it, but the membership likely can also, depending on the powers given to the board.

But that's all as per RONR. If there are other rules or laws that are applicable, you'll need to consult those.

[Tomm]

On 6/24/2022 at 11:52 AM, Joshua Katz said:

The body that adopted it can (so far as RONR is concerned) amend it by adopting the motion Amend Something Previously Adopted

Is it necessary to make a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted if the budget has already been approved or can a simple motion to approve an additional amount of expenditures acceptable?

I know it seems trivial and almost like both motions are the same, but I would assume that continuing to add more expenses with a simple motion without first reviewing the original current budget by Amending Something Previously Adopted, you can quickly find yourself in the position where the budget is no longer in the black? 

Does the motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted add any additional due diligence rather then a simple motion to approve more money? It's kinda like leaping without looking to do so!

[Joshua Katz]

On 6/24/2022 at 4:26 PM, Tomm said:

Is it necessary to make a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted if the budget has already been approved or can a simple motion to approve an additional amount of expenditures acceptable?

 

It is something previously adopted, and the desire is to amend it. Whether an off-budget expenditure can, nevertheless, be approved, depends on the motion that adopted the budget, and any other applicable rules.

On 6/24/2022 at 4:26 PM, Tomm said:

I know it seems trivial and almost like both motions are the same, but I would assume that continuing to add more expenses with a simple motion without first reviewing the original current budget by Amending Something Previously Adopted, you can quickly find yourself in the position where the budget is no longer in the black? 

 

Yes, if you add expenditures and do not look at the budget, you might write a negative budget.

On 6/24/2022 at 4:26 PM, Tomm said:

Does the motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted add any additional due diligence rather then a simple motion to approve more money? It's kinda like leaping without looking to do so!

Why would you presume that the voters, being asked to amend something previously adopted, would do so without looking at the thing to be amended?

[Tomm]

On 6/24/2022 at 1:30 PM, Joshua Katz said:

Why would you presume that the voters, being asked to amend something previously adopted, would do so without looking at the thing to be amended?

Because it's easy! Especially if it's to purchase something you may want! 

A simple motion to approve more expenditures doesn't imply or require any additional review of what the current budget may be. It's simply asking for more money! 

Damn the torpedo's, full speed ahead!

[Joshua Katz]

On 6/24/2022 at 4:41 PM, Tomm said:

Because it's easy! Especially if it's to purchase something you may want! 

 

Okay. If the voters, confronting a motion to amend something previously adopted, choose not to concern themselves with what was previously adopted, they'll likely not get good consequences. But RONR is not a guide to getting good consequences, just to getting the outcomes a majority supports (after the minority is heard from).

[Tomm]

On 6/24/2022 at 1:43 PM, Joshua Katz said:

Okay. If the voters, confronting a motion to amend something previously adopted, choose not to concern themselves with what was previously adopted, they'll likely not get good consequences. But RONR is not a guide to getting good consequences, just to getting the outcomes a majority supports (after the minority is heard from).

I get it. Both motions get you to the same place. Seems to be more to the fact that most members don't understand RONR and the proper application of its rules/motions. 

[laser158689]

On 6/24/2022 at 2:40 PM, Guest Maureen Suseck said:

If we can't amend then we will need to bring every overage bill/charge to member vote.

Are you sure of that?  I don't think the answer is in RONR (bylaws, law, past practice, ?).  

A budget is a spending plan.  You may spend more in some accounts than budgeted and less in others.  Perhaps you simply need to reallocate cash among accounts - an accounting rather than budgeting process.  You need to pay the bills, not change the plan, which isn't matching reality.

If your budget number for each account is a hard cap, how have you handled this situation in the past?  Or are you exceeding the total budget number, and now facing a revenue/cash issue?

[Guest Maureen Suseck]

Thanks for all the feedback. I think you have provided some viable actions that our budget committee can discuss. I believe that the board approved the original budget subject to the member vote. Doesn't look like we have gone over the budgeted amounts in the past. There have been times when there were expenses that were not in the budget and the members were asked to vote on it.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/24/2022 at 5:19 PM, laser158689 said:

Are you sure of that?  I don't think the answer is in RONR (bylaws, law, past practice, ?).  

A budget is a spending plan.  You may spend more in some accounts than budgeted and less in others.  Perhaps you simply need to reallocate cash among accounts - an accounting rather than budgeting process.  You need to pay the bills, not change the plan, which isn't matching reality.

If your budget number for each account is a hard cap, how have you handled this situation in the past?  Or are you exceeding the total budget number, and now facing a revenue/cash issue?

It is common for organizations which do adopt a budget that the treasurer may pay proper bills without further approval of the membership if they stay within the budget (and satisfy other possible accounting controls).  So if a budget line hits cap, everything has to go to the membership.

But it's also true that reällocating between accounts (sometimes called budget transfers) still requires a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted, even if the total budget does not change as a result.   Some organizations have special rules that make budget transfers easier so long as the bottom line does not change.