Content of a motion

[Guest kristin]

Does a motion need to include what was discussed in regard to that motion within that motion? For example, during a local planning commission meeting a motion was passed that stated, "There is no violation of permit 14-66." However, in the official minutes of that meeting, the motion reads, "No violation of permit 14-66. Day use is allowed and the advertising of the hall is not a violation. Use of hall when buildings are rented is not a violation."  Is it possible to add this wording, which was part of the planning commissioners discussion, in the official minutes of this meeting?

[Bruce Lages]

Not according to the rules in RONR. The minutes should contain the exact wording of the motion as stated by the chair prior to the vote on the motion being taken. In RONR's words: "stating the wording in which each motion was adopted or otherwise disposed of..." (48:4, 6a).  Whatever is said during discussion is not part of the motion unless any such wording is incorporated into the motion by an adopted amendment.

[Richard Brown]

On 10/17/2022 at 9:02 AM, Guest kristin said:

Is it possible to add this wording, which was part of the planning commissioners discussion, in the official minutes of this meeting?

Actually, yes. Although I agree with Mr. Lages regarding what information the minutes should normally contain, the 12th edition of RONR contains new language in section 48:3 which specifically permits the inclusion of additional information  if so directed by the assembly.. That section reads as follows:

“To modify the rules governing what is regularly to be included in the minutes requires adoption of a special rule of order, although a majority vote may direct the inclusion of specific additional information in the minutes of a particular meeting“.   (§48:3 (RONR 12th ed.)  (Emphasis added). 

[Bruce Lages]

In looking again at Guest kristin's post, I see that she has actually asked two very different questions. In the first two sentences she asks:

On 10/17/2022 at 10:02 AM, Guest kristin said:

Does a motion need to include what was discussed in regard to that motion within that motion? For example, during a local planning commission meeting a motion was passed that stated, "There is no violation of permit 14-66." However, in the official minutes of that meeting, the motion reads, "No violation of permit 14-66. Day use is allowed and the advertising of the hall is not a violation. Use of hall when buildings are rented is not a violation."

And then she asks:

On 10/17/2022 at 10:02 AM, Guest kristin said:

Is it possible to add this wording, which was part of the planning commissioners discussion, in the official minutes of this meeting?

I will stand by my answer to the first of these questions, while Mr. Brown's response is entirely correct for the second question. I think it is clear that any additional material that is to be included in the minutes must be written in a manner which clearly distinguishes it from the exact wording of motions as adopted (or considered), and which never conveys the impression that any wording in such additional material was also included in the original motion. 

[Guest Kristin]

Thank you very much, Bruce and Richard. The assembly did not direct the addition of the additional language, so it appears that the addition of this language did not follow proper procedure. Correct?

[Bruce Lages]

That probably depends on what happened or can still happen. It certainly would not be proper procedure if the secretary, or someone else, added this language after the minutes were already approved. But if the minutes have not yet been approved the commission can decide, by majority vote if necessary, whether to approve the minutes as written if the additional language is already included, or to remove the additional language before approval.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 at 11:23 PM by Bruce Lages
changed 'adopted' to 'approved'

[Richard Brown]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:34 PM, Guest Kristin said:

Thank you very much, Bruce and Richard. The assembly did not direct the addition of the additional language, so it appears that the addition of this language did not follow proper procedure. Correct?

Maybe, maybe not. Have the minutes been approved yet? The secretary should not include that additional information on her own, but when the minutes are up for approval, it may be added to the minutes at the request of (actually by motion of) any member, including the secretary.  It requires a majority vote (or unanimous consent) to add that additional content to the minutes. It can be done when the minutes are up for approval and it can actually even be done months or years after the fact by using  the motion to amend something previously adopted.

Edited to add: Actually, although the secretary should not add that additional information on her own, if she did in fact include it  in her draft minutes and the minutes were approved with that additional content, then what’s done is done and they are approved with that content. 

Edited October 18, 2022 at 12:06 AM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Guest Kristin]

What if the clerk added the additional language after the motion passed. At the next planning commission meeting the additional language, added by the clerk, was included in the minutes of the previous meeting and those minutes were approved. Is this correct procedure?  THANKS!

[Richard Brown]

It’s not really the correct procedure, but if the minutes were approved with that additional content in them, then what is done is done and that content is now part of the minutes.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 10/17/2022 at 8:38 PM, Guest Kristin said:

What if the clerk added the additional language after the motion passed. At the next planning commission meeting the additional language, added by the clerk, was included in the minutes of the previous meeting and those minutes were approved. Is this correct procedure?  THANKS!

No, it's not correct because the clerk was wrong to change the wording of the original motion as passed, or to added personal commentary to it.  If the membership then approved this improper draft, it would stand approved, but that doesn't mean the procedure was correct.

 

[Atul Kapur]

And the minutes can be corrected after approval, by use of the motion to amend something previously adopted (don't worry about the fact that minutes get 'approved' rather than 'adopted' - this is still the correct motion to use to correct them).

[Guest Kristin]

Thanks to all, I now feel like I understand this issue.