Is it a good idea to copy portions of RONR of order into your bylaws?

[Guest Jason Gorman]

Is it a good idea to copy portions of RONR of order into your bylaws? We have a statement of authority linking to RONR already in our constitution. However, we have parent organization that does not recognize RONR and they have seen fit to offer interpret our bylaws in a manner inconsistent with RONR because because certain things pertaining to elections were not in our bylaws. So it is a good idea to copy things such as definitions of what a majority is and how to tally votes from RONR and put them verbatim in our bylaws or is a statement of authority in our constitution enough? Our constitution says this: "Meetings will be conducted as per Roberts Rules of Order, Newly Revised Edition."

[Josh Martin]

On 10/27/2022 at 1:47 PM, Guest Jason Gorman said:

Is it a good idea to copy portions of RONR of order into your bylaws?

No. Inevitably, such a copy will be incomplete in comparison to the rules in RONR, which will lead to conflicts between the attempt to incorporate provisions of RONR in the organization's bylaws and what is actually stated in RONR.

This practice may also be problematic because provisions in RONR can (generally speaking) be overridden by a special rule of order, while provisions in the bylaws cannot be. So placing provisions from RONR in the bylaws will have the effect of elevating the status of those provisions much higher than is usual, which may not be the intent.

On 10/27/2022 at 1:47 PM, Guest Jason Gorman said:

However, we have parent organization that does not recognize RONR and they have seen fit to offer interpret our bylaws in a manner inconsistent with RONR because because certain things pertaining to elections were not in our bylaws. So it is a good idea to copy things such as definitions of what a majority is and how to tally votes from RONR and put them verbatim in our bylaws or is a statement of authority in our constitution enough? Our constitution says this: "Meetings will be conducted as per Roberts Rules of Order, Newly Revised Edition."

It is not desirable to copy things from RONR verbatim in an organization's bylaws.

A statement that RONR is the organization's parliamentary authority is "enough" so far as RONR is concerned, although it may be worth noting that the language RONR recommends in this regard is as follows:

"The rules contained in the current edition of Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised shall govern the Society in all cases to which they are applicable and in which they are not inconsistent with these bylaws and any special rules of order the Society may adopt."

Unfortunately, we are told the situation here is that the society's parent organization "does not recognize RONR and they have seen fit to offer interpret our bylaws in a manner inconsistent with RONR because because certain things pertaining to elections were not in our bylaws." In such circumstances, it is conceivable that it may be necessary to repeat certain rules in the organization's bylaws (or perhaps in a lower-level rule, such as a special rule of order) in order to satisfy the parent organization, notwithstanding that this practice is inadvisable generally.

[jggorman]

Thank you!

[puzzling]

some bits of RONR even have to be inthe bylaws.

for example:

- if you want to use mail in voting with plurality election.

-using electronic meetings

so if you want to use these bits they will have to be in the bylaws.

[Richard Brown]

On 10/28/2022 at 11:26 AM, puzzling said:

some bits of RONR even have to be inthe bylaws.

Well, Not really, and not direct quotes from RONR, which would be duplicative. What must be in the bylaws, if it is to be permitted, are provisions to authorize electronic meetings, email Voting, etc. But as far as the rules in RONR, the book does not suggest copying any of the rules into the bylaws. 

Edited to add: I think the only provision directly from RONR that it suggests  using in the bylaws is the language for adopting RONR as the parliamentary authority.
 

Edited October 28, 2022 at 05:28 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Josh Martin]

On 10/28/2022 at 11:26 AM, puzzling said:

some bits of RONR even have to be inthe bylaws.

for example:

- if you want to use mail in voting with plurality election.

-using electronic meetings

so if you want to use these bits they will have to be in the bylaws.

I suppose I see what you mean, in a very limited sense. RONR does have sample bylaw provisions for electronic meetings in the Appendix. Certainly, there are also the sample bylaws generally.

I'm not sure what you are referring to with "if you want to use mail in voting with plurality election." It is correct that, if a society wishes to do such a thing, it would need to be in the bylaws, but I'm not aware of a provision in RONR which is to be included in the bylaws for such a rule.

So I suppose it might be more accurate to say "No, provisions of RONR should not be copied into the bylaws, except for those portions which are specifically designed to be bylaws provisions." The issues at hand do not appear to be such provisions.