Out of order ruling for agenda item

[Janis Arnold]

A member of a school board wishes to add an item to the agenda. The item is related to a disciplinary issue that has been sent for investigation. If there is an appeal to the investigator's decision, it is the board that would hear the appeal. It's my understanding that an "out of order" motion can be made if it goes against the by-laws. The by-laws contain the agenda but can the motion to add to the agenda still be ruled out of order because it's about the board's mandate / role (board could become biased if hearing before the appeal) and not about the actual by-law?  In other words, can there be an out of order motion when the motion goes against the work of the board or against something that isn't under its jurisdiction?

[Josh Martin]

I would first note that since this involves a school board, and also because of the subject matter, I expect it is highly likely that there will also be relevant rules on this matter in the school board's rules and/or applicable law. Such rules will take precedence over RONR. I would advise the school board to consult an attorney on such matters.

With that said, to the extent that what RONR says on these subjects may be of assistance (which I think is not much), I would answer as follows...

On 12/9/2022 at 5:13 PM, Janis Arnold said:

It's my understanding that an "out of order" motion can be made if it goes against the by-laws.

I am not entirely certain what you mean by this. A motion which conflicts with the bylaws is out of order, if that is your question.

"No main motion is in order that conflicts with the corporate charter, constitution, or bylaws (although a main motion to amend them may be in order; see 35, 57); and to the extent that procedural rules applicable to the organization or assembly are prescribed by federal, state, or local law, no main motion is in order that conflicts with such rules." RONR (12th ed.) 10:26

On 12/9/2022 at 5:13 PM, Janis Arnold said:

The by-laws contain the agenda but can the motion to add to the agenda still be ruled out of order because it's about the board's mandate / role (board could become biased if hearing before the appeal) and not about the actual by-law?   In other words, can there be an out of order motion when the motion goes against the work of the board or against something that isn't under its jurisdiction?

If I understand this correctly, a board member wishes to add an item to the agenda which is related to a disciplinary matter which may come before the board on appeal.

Based upon that understanding, I do not think that this fact, in and of itself, would make the motion a violation of the bylaws or otherwise out of order. But since I have very limited facts about what is going on here or what portion of the bylaws this motion would supposedly conflict with, I do not say this with a great deal of certainty.

I am also generally doubtful that a motion to simply add an item to the agenda may be ruled out of order, but it may be possible to rule the item itself out of order when it comes up in the agenda.

I would again strongly suggest asking these questions of the board's attorney.

Edited December 9, 2022 at 11:42 PM by Josh Martin

[puzzling]

On 12/9/2022 at 11:13 PM, Janis Arnold said:

A member of a school board wishes to add an item to the agenda. The item is related to a disciplinary issue that has been sent for investigation. If there is an appeal to the investigator's decision, it is the board that would hear the appeal. It's my understanding that an "out of order" motion can be made if it goes against the by-laws. The by-laws contain the agenda but can the motion to add to the agenda still be ruled out of order because it's about the board's mandate / role (board could become biased if hearing before the appeal) and not about the actual by-law?  In other words, can there be an out of order motion when the motion goes against the work of the board or against something that isn't under its jurisdiction?

complicated

you seem to have your own disciplinary regulations (different  than those in RONR) and so I would not dare to guess what to answer.

Under RONR you can discharge a committee (see section 36) but I am not even sure if RONR allows it for disciplinary comittees.

[Josh Martin]

On 12/9/2022 at 5:33 PM, puzzling said:

Under RONR you can discharge a committee (see section 36) but I am not even sure if RONR allows it for disciplinary comittees.

I think that would depend on the particular facts and circumstances. There are several different types of disciplinary committees in RONR, and many stages in the process. If you wish to pursue that question further, I would suggest posting it as a new topic with additional facts, since I do not think this will be relevant to the OP's question.

[Janis Arnold]

Josh, I see what you mean by needing more information but I think you've unintentionally given me my answer by writing "No main motion is in order that conflicts with the corporate charter, constitution,......." and also   "...doubtful that a motion to simply add an item to the agenda may be ruled out of order, but it may be possible to rule the item itself out of order when it comes up in the agenda".   It's a difficult situation and a lawyer is already involved in the background.  I hope to advise the Chair on steps he's allowed to take in the meeting and I think you've provided that.

 

[puzzling]

On 12/9/2022 at 11:40 PM, Josh Martin said:

I think that would depend on the particular facts and circumstances. There are several different types of disciplinary committees in RONR, and many stages in the process. If you wish to pursue that question further, I would suggest posting it as a new topic with additional facts, since I do not think this will be relevant to the OP's question.

I do think you can see  the investigator as a committee. And my answer was build on that.

RONR 38:8 5) does not exactly addresses this but it  does say a motion referred to a committee can not be renewed until after the session at witch the assembly  finally disposes of the main motion. (and I think that the investigator can be seen as committee, and I assume  that the board or laws refered the case to him)

 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 12/9/2022 at 6:29 PM, Josh Martin said:

If I understand this correctly, a board member wishes to add an item to the agenda which is related to a disciplinary matter which may come before the board on appeal.

This could be a problem if the matter had been referred to an investigative committee.  An assembly cannot take up a question that is in the hands of a committee without first discharging that committee, so a motion could be ruled out of order on that basis.

But based on what has been presented so far I would not bet that this is the case here.  I believe the parliamentary term for this is "Just Sayin'". 

[Janis Arnold]

Gary Novosielski, yes, you have it right and I like your solution - if with the investigating committee, they can't take up the question until that's discharged.

[Janis Arnold]

Puzzlin' - yes, you're correct - it's been referred to the investigator (committee).  These are all great solutions.  Thanks everyone!

[Gary Novosielski]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:17 PM, Janis Arnold said:

Gary Novosielski, yes, you have it right and I like your solution - if with the investigating committee, they can't take up the question until that's discharged.

See RONR 12th ed. §36. DISCHARGE A COMMITTEE for information on that motion.