Quorums and Recesses

[Gene McDonald]

Good Evening All.

A few questions come up today from my Bylaw Committee Chair and I am having trouble finding the answer. I am sure someone can help.

If at the beginning of a meeting there is a quorum to start the meeting and throughout the meeting, members begin to disappear. Then there are motions made and there is no quorum to vote. Motions are tabled and meeting goes into recess until the next evening when the meeting reconvenes with the annual dinner and we know there will be a quorum. Can the meeting reconvene to bring up the tabled motions, then go back into recess until after the dinner and then reconvene.  One of the individuals on the Bylaws Committee is telling the Chair this is how another one of her clubs does it.  I need help.

Gene McDonald

[J. J.]

On 1/20/2023 at 8:36 PM, Gene McDonald said:

Good Evening All.

A few questions come up today from my Bylaw Committee Chair and I am having trouble finding the answer. I am sure someone can help.

If at the beginning of a meeting there is a quorum to start the meeting and throughout the meeting, members begin to disappear. Then there are motions made and there is no quorum to vote. Motions are tabled and meeting goes into recess until the next evening when the meeting reconvenes with the annual dinner and we know there will be a quorum. Can the meeting reconvene to bring up the tabled motions, then go back into recess until after the dinner and then reconvene.  One of the individuals on the Bylaws Committee is telling the Chair this is how another one of her clubs does it.  I need help.

Gene McDonald

First, you technically should have used the motion Fix Time to Which to Adjourn.  You would not "table" any motions; you would just start the meeting back up (see Section 22).

If you did in fact recess until the next evening, you can start the meeting back up, recess for dinner, and start it up again (see Section 20).  ,

Edited January 22, 2023 at 03:12 PM by J. J.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:33 PM, J. J. said:

You would [not] "table" any motions  <-- correction added

 

[Josh Martin]

On 1/20/2023 at 7:36 PM, Gene McDonald said:

If at the beginning of a meeting there is a quorum to start the meeting and throughout the meeting, members begin to disappear. Then there are motions made and there is no quorum to vote. Motions are tabled and meeting goes into recess until the next evening when the meeting reconvenes with the annual dinner and we know there will be a quorum. Can the meeting reconvene to bring up the tabled motions, then go back into recess until after the dinner and then reconvene.  One of the individuals on the Bylaws Committee is telling the Chair this is how another one of her clubs does it.  I need help.

There are a few errors with what occurred here...

First, there should not have been any action to "table" the motions, for two reasons. For one thing, the assembly appears to be confusing the motion to Lay on the Table with the motion to Postpone to a Certain Time (or Postpone Definitely). (See FAQ #12.) For another, motions to postpone or lay on the table are not proper in the absence of a quorum (unless they relate to motions which are in order in the absence of a quorum). Very few actions are permitted when a quorum is not present.

Second, the proper terminology to take a break until the next evening is to adjourn the meeting until the next evening, not to recess, which refers to a shorter break.

What should have instead been done was to adjourn the meeting "until the next evening when the meeting reconvenes with the annual dinner." Depending on whether business was pending at the time, this might be able to be done with a single qualified motion to Adjourn, or it may have required a motion to Fix the Time to Which to Adjourn, followed by a motion to Adjourn.

Notwithstanding this, what's done is done at this point. It is indeed entirely in order to "reconvene to bring up the tabled motions, then go back into recess until after the dinner and then reconvene." It's perhaps debatable whether "recess" or "adjourn" is more appropriate in this case - a break of this length falls into a bit of a gray area.

"A similar situation exists regarding the terms recess, adjournment, and adjournment sine die. It is common, especially in conventions, to hear the word recess also applied to a longer break that does terminate a meeting and that consequently should be understood as an adjournment, as in “to recess until tomorrow.” On the other hand, assemblies sometimes “adjourn” or provide in the program or agenda for an “adjournment” when only a short recess is intended. The use of the word recess to describe the interval between regular sessions of an organization or assembly, as in “the summer recess of Congress,” is a colloquialism that has no relationship to the parliamentary meaning of the term.

The distinction between recess and adjournment may in some cases become thin so that it must be judged in the individual context. For example, according to the definitions given above, a break in the proceedings of a convention for lunch may be more in the nature of a recess, or of an adjournment, depending on the time and the extent of dispersion of the members that is required for them to be served." RONR (12th ed.) 8:6-7

Edited January 21, 2023 at 01:32 PM by Josh Martin

[Dan Honemann]

On 1/21/2023 at 8:31 AM, Josh Martin said:

For another, motions to postpone or lay on the table are not proper in the absence of a quorum (unless they relate to motions which are in order in the absence of a quorum).

Save me the effort of thinking more about this and give me an example of when a motion to postpone or lay on the table would be in order in the absence of a quorum.  🙂

[Phil D]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:55 AM, Dan Honemann said:

Save me the effort of thinking more about this and give me an example of when a motion to postpone or lay on the table would be in order in the absence of a quorum.  🙂

It’s in order to fix time to adjourn, adjourn, recess, and take measures to obtain quorum. Also: “Subsidiary and incidental motions, questions of privilege, motions to Raise a Question of Privilege or Call for the Orders of the Day, and other motions may also be considered if they are related to these motions or to the conduct of the meeting while it remains without a quorum.” 
 

A bit hard to conceive of where you get with postponing or laying some of these on the table, but perhaps in assemblies with larger quorum thresholds those discussions become complex. 

 

[J. J.]

On 1/21/2023 at 12:23 AM, Gary Novosielski said:

 

Fixed.

[J. J.]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:55 AM, Dan Honemann said:

Save me the effort of thinking more about this and give me an example of when a motion to postpone or lay on the table would be in order in the absence of a quorum.  🙂

"I move to postpone the motion 'To send the sergeant-of-arms out to arrest the absent members' until after the whip phones the absent members. "

Would that work? 

[Dan Honemann]

On 1/22/2023 at 10:16 AM, J. J. said:

"I move to postpone the motion 'To send the sergeant-of-arms out to arrest the absent members' until after the whip phones the absent members. "

Would that work? 

It looks as if it would, but two things come to mind.  The first is that a motion "To send the sergeant-of-arms out to arrest the absent members" is not one which is applicable in voluntary societies (40:13), and the second is the question as to whether "after the whip phones the absent members" qualifies as a "certain event" as contemplated in 14:1 and 14:20(c).

But in any event, you did better than I was able to do  😀

[J. J.]

On 1/22/2023 at 2:41 PM, Dan Honemann said:

It looks as if it would, but two things come to mind.  The first is that a motion "To send the sergeant-of-arms out to arrest the absent members" is not one which is applicable in voluntary societies (40:13), and the second is the question as to whether "after the whip phones the absent members" qualifies as a "certain event" as contemplated in 14:1 and 14:20(c).

But in any event, you did better than I was able to do  😀

Well, did anyone say this was a private organization. 

I have heard a number of parliamentarians suggest it would qualify as a "certain event," though I will agree that it would be questionable. 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 1/22/2023 at 10:13 AM, J. J. said:

Fixed.

Saw that.  Unfortunately I can not now edit or remove my message, due to previous deënhancements.