Presenting Recommendations Three Times before Voting

[Guest Katrina Evans]

Hello!

I presented recommendations to our local chapter's bylaws that are in line with our organization's national bylaws.

This matter was to be voted on in June at our last meeting. I was not present, but learned later it was not voted on

because we did not follow parilamentary procedure in that the matter was to be read outloud three times, or presented 3 times,

before voting. There was no resolution, so the matter will be brought up in our September meeting.

 

I have the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order, but I am not finding anything related to this procedure.

Does this sound familiar to you? Is the repeating of the recommendations three times before voting still required?

If so, or if not, please kindly direct me to where it mentions this is Robert's Rules of Order. I am asking for specifics

because I want to share this with the group so that we can be on the same page.

I appreciate your feedback and assistance so much! 

[George Mervosh]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:43 AM, Guest Katrina Evans said:

Hello!

I presented recommendations to our local chapter's bylaws that are in line with our organization's national bylaws.

This matter was to be voted on in June at our last meeting. I was not present, but learned later it was not voted on

because we did not follow parilamentary procedure in that the matter was to be read outloud three times, or presented 3 times,

before voting. There was no resolution, so the matter will be brought up in our September meeting.

 

I have the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order, but I am not finding anything related to this procedure.

Does this sound familiar to you? Is the repeating of the recommendations three times before voting still required?

If so, or if not, please kindly direct me to where it mentions this is Robert's Rules of Order. I am asking for specifics

because I want to share this with the group so that we can be on the same page.

I appreciate your feedback and assistance so much! 

Nothing in RONR requires that a motion be read aloud 3 times, or presented 3 times before voting on it.  Check your bylaws carefully.  There should be an article in them detailing exactly how to amend the bylaws.  Your answer may be there.

[Josh Martin]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:43 AM, Guest Katrina Evans said:

I have the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order, but I am not finding anything related to this procedure. Does this sound familiar to you? Is the repeating of the recommendations three times before voting still required?

There is not and (and never has been) a "three readings" requirement in Robert's Rules of Order. At most, two readings would be required. One reading is required when the motion is made, and then a second reading when the question is put to a vote (if there has been debate or amendment). If the text of the motion has been distributed, then either (or both) of these readings may be omitted if there is no objection.

"When any paper is laid before the assembly for action, it is a right of every member that it be read once; and, if there is any debate or amendment, that it be read again before members are asked to vote on it." RONR (12th ed.) 33:21

"If the text of the resolution or motion has been distributed to the members in advance, however, it need not be read when moved." RONR (12th ed.) 4:5

"In the case of any resolution, motion, or paper placed before the assembly that has not been read even once, the chair may not put it to a vote or seek its approval or adoption without reading it (or having it read by the secretary) unless permission is first obtained by unanimous consent—except that where the full text has been distributed to the members in advance, the chair may initially presume that there is no objection to omitting the reading (but any member still has the right to demand that it be read)." RONR (12th ed.) 4:37fn11

Edited September 6, 2023 at 04:12 PM by Josh Martin

[Gary Novosielski]

On 9/6/2023 at 11:43 AM, Guest Katrina Evans said:

Hello!

I presented recommendations to our local chapter's bylaws that are in line with our organization's national bylaws.

This matter was to be voted on in June at our last meeting. I was not present, but learned later it was not voted on

because we did not follow parilamentary procedure in that the matter was to be read outloud three times, or presented 3 times,

before voting. There was no resolution, so the matter will be brought up in our September meeting.

 

I have the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order, but I am not finding anything related to this procedure.

Does this sound familiar to you? Is the repeating of the recommendations three times before voting still required?

If so, or if not, please kindly direct me to where it mentions this is Robert's Rules of Order. I am asking for specifics

because I want to share this with the group so that we can be on the same page.

I appreciate your feedback and assistance so much! 

It's not in there.

Multiple readings (usually only two) are used in some state and local legislative bodies, but there's no such rule in RONR.

As Mr. Martin points out, in the normal course of business the full text of a motion will be stated before debate, and again before the vote, but these are rarely called "readings" and in any case typically take place at the same meeting, not spaced out as multiple reading rules often are.

In these days of instant communications, three readings, or even two, seems excessive.  You might want to consider whether your bylaws need refreshing.

[Guest Katrina]

Thank you for your responses! They are very helpful!

[Atul Kapur]

Agreeing with the responses above:

Where they are used in non-legislative organizations, the rule for multiple readings usually serves a similar function as RONR's previous notice. However, because of the practice in many legislative bodies, there is often confusion as to the details of what is allowed during the multiple readings, for example, can you debate or amend it on the first or second reading? 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 9/6/2023 at 2:44 PM, Atul Kapur said:

Agreeing with the responses above:

Where they are used in non-legislative organizations, the rule for multiple readings usually serves a similar function as RONR's previous notice. However, because of the practice in many legislative bodies, there is often confusion as to the details of what is allowed during the multiple readings, for example, can you debate or amend it on the first or second reading? 

Right, and then if it is amended on first or second reading, was that amendment substantial enough that it requires two more readings.  When these questions come up, everyone has an opinion, and RONR has little to say.  In the typical case, not even the legislators who wrote the rules appear to know what they meant.