What action comes first? Vote on proposal or bylaws change…

[Kelly Spencer]

My organization has grown. We have a large committee that is organized/governed  by our bylaws. The committee has gotten so large and it really does the work of 2 committees.

The committee chairperson is exhausted and would like to split into 2 committees.

She brought the committee’s recommendation to the body and a member of the committee moved to split the committee into two.

The Presiding Officer instantly stated that the motion was not in order because the bylaws needed to be amended first.

What is the appropriate order here? 

[Joshua Katz]

If the committee is organized by the bylaws, so that splitting it will require a bylaws amendment, then that must be done before splitting it.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 9/9/2023 at 2:14 PM, Kelly Spencer said:

My organization has grown. We have a large committee that is organized/governed  by our bylaws. The committee has gotten so large and it really does the work of 2 committees.

The committee chairperson is exhausted and would like to split into 2 committees.

She brought the committee’s recommendation to the body and a member of the committee moved to split the committee into two.

The Presiding Officer instantly stated that the motion was not in order because the bylaws needed to be amended first.

What is the appropriate order here? 

If splitting the committee would violate the bylaws, then the committee can't be split until the bylaws are amended to allow it.    If the current committee is specified in the bylaws (we don't know the chair's reasoning, but that would make sense) then it may only be necessary to change the bylaws to create two separate committees.  If that is done, then there's no need for any subsequent motion.

[Josh Martin]

On 9/9/2023 at 2:14 PM, Kelly Spencer said:

The Presiding Officer instantly stated that the motion was not in order because the bylaws needed to be amended first.

What is the appropriate order here? 

The presiding officer is correct. If the committee in question is specified in the bylaws, then it cannot be "split" into two committees except by amending the bylaws.

A potential option in the interim, however, is to create two subcommittees of this committee, each focusing on a particular area of the committee's work.

Edited September 10, 2023 at 02:12 AM by Josh Martin

[Drake Savory]

What exactly do the bylaws say about the committee?  Are all of the members currently on the committee required to be on it under the bylaws?  Are the duties of the committee in the bylaws?  Something doesn't make sense to me - why can't the organization just make a new committee and move some members and duties over to that new committee?

[Kelly Spencer]

@Drake Savory the bylaws only speak to one member being on the committee and that is a specific officer position we have called Host.

Perhaps the wording of the action desired by some of the committee was incorrect.  The bylaws  actually does list two separate committees with somewhat similar duties but upon close reading the duties are distinct (with a couple lines of overlap). The issue comes in more so with Officer roles as the bylaws stipulate that the Host is the chairman of both committees. So in effect, it’s operating as one committee - even though the bylaws does not direct the committee to operate as such. 

The desire of the Host and some others is to have the Host solely responsible for one committee (Hospitality) and create a separate chairperson role for the second committee (Social). 

I went back to some minutes from creation of the bylaws and it appears the intent was for it to act as one committee only to lessen the burden/responsibilities. Because the organization was small, there was hesitance to create too many chairperson roles when there weren’t a lot of people to fill them. So every officer was given responsibility for a committee. This was the only officer that was given responsibility for 2. 

Rather than a motion to separate the functions, the committee should have proposed a Bylaws change to remove the Host as the  chairperson for the Social Committee  and establish a Chairperson role.  

[Gary Novosielski]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:25 AM, Drake Savory said:

What exactly do the bylaws say about the committee?  Are all of the members currently on the committee required to be on it under the bylaws?  Are the duties of the committee in the bylaws?  Something doesn't make sense to me - why can't the organization just make a new committee and move some members and duties over to that new committee?

Well, it can, of course.  But if the committee is one that is created by the bylaws, it can only be modified by changing the bylaws.  And if this is a standing committee (which it sounds like) then the creation of one or more standing committees in the bylaws means that any new standing committees must also be done in the same manner.

They can certainly do it.  The question is how.

[Drake Savory]

On 9/10/2023 at 9:40 AM, Gary Novosielski said:

And if this is a standing committee (which it sounds like) then the creation of one or more standing committees in the bylaws means that any new standing committees must also be done in the same manner.

50:8 allows standing committees to be created by resolution, not just in the bylaws, IF the bylaws allow it.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 9/10/2023 at 1:28 PM, Drake Savory said:

50:8 allows standing committees to be created by resolution, not just in the bylaws, IF the bylaws allow it.

Apparently they don't, or the chair would have ruled differently.  And I think you meant 50:9.

 

Edited September 10, 2023 at 10:10 PM by Gary Novosielski

[Drake Savory]

On 9/10/2023 at 4:04 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

And I think you meant 50:9.

Yes.  The space after the bulleting threw me.  And considering how well many Chairs know their bylaws I think it is a good idea for the committee chair in question to check just in case.