Vote being presented without a motion or a 2nd

[Guest Cross]

Voting ballots are sent out electronically for our meetings.  A number of items were on the ballot and all of the items (except one) received a proper motion and second for the ballot to be presented.  But all of the items appeared on the ballot for the vote - including the one that did not receive a proper motion and second.  Everything on the ballot passed (including the item that did not receive a motion and a second).  

So my question is - how do we deal with the item that did not receive a motion and a second in our next meeting?  It "passed" unanimously in the vote.  Without the motion and second does it not exist?  Do we ask the the assembly for approval after-the-fact?  Do we just do it over for that one item?  Our organization does not have a policy on this.

Many thanks

[Joshua Katz]

This will require interpretation of your bylaws on electronic voting, and any applicable lower-ranking rules.

However, as a general matter, I can say this - this sort of formality doesn't result in a vote being invalidated if everyone knew what they were voting on. At a real meeting, that means the chair putting the question for a vote, i.e. saying "the question is on X" followed by a vote. Even if no one moved X or seconded X, some action was taken. So I would think, if your bylaws and procedure for email voting are not helpful, that the result stands. In fact, it's less of an issue here than it would be at a real meeting, where debate would be impacted.

[Josh Martin]

On 2/26/2024 at 11:18 AM, Guest Cross said:

So my question is - how do we deal with the item that did not receive a motion and a second in our next meeting?  It "passed" unanimously in the vote.  Without the motion and second does it not exist?  Do we ask the the assembly for approval after-the-fact?  Do we just do it over for that one item?  Our organization does not have a policy on this.

I don't think there is any need to do anything in regard to this matter. It seems to me the item is adopted.

Generally, the rule is that a Point of Order concerning an error in procedure must be raised promptly at the time the breach arises. At this point, it's too late to complain about the lack of a motion and second.

"The general rule is that if a question of order is to be raised, it must be raised promptly at the time the breach occurs. For example, if the chair is stating the question on a motion that has not been seconded, or on a motion that is not in order in the existing parliamentary situation, the time to raise these points of order is when the chair states the motion. After debate on such a motion has begun—no matter how clear it is that the chair should not have stated the question on the motion—a point of order is too late. If a member is unsure of his point or wishes to hear what the maker has to say on behalf of the motion before pressing a point of order, he may, with the chair's sufferance, “reserve a point of order” against the motion; but after the maker has spoken, he must insist upon his point of order or withdraw it. Points of order regarding the conduct of a vote must be raised immediately following the announcement of the voting result (see 45:9)." RONR (12th ed.) 23:5

In regard to the lack of a second in particular, RONR is even more explicit.

"After debate has begun or, if there is no debate, after any member has voted, the lack of a second has become immaterial and it is too late to make a point of order that the motion has not been seconded. If a motion is considered and adopted without having been seconded—even in a case where there was no reason for the chair to overlook this requirement—the absence of a second does not affect the validity of the motion's adoption." RONR (12th ed.) 4:13

Edited February 26, 2024 at 07:41 PM by Josh Martin

[Gary Novosielski]

On 2/26/2024 at 12:18 PM, Guest Cross said:

So my question is - how do we deal with the item that did not receive a motion and a second in our next meeting?  It "passed" unanimously in the vote.  Without the motion and second does it not exist?  Do we ask the the assembly for approval after-the-fact?  Do we just do it over for that one item?  Our organization does not have a policy on this.

The question I have is, did the voters know what they were voting on—in other words, did they know what the motion would have said, if it had been moved and seconded, when they voted on it?