Resolving action missed during convention

[U. N. Owen]

At a recent convention, delegates were elected to represent the body at a gathering of sister organizations.  There was a tie, and while the convention rules dictate how to break  a tie, the tie was not broken since no vote to break the tie was done.  This was a mistake and not willfully done.  Effectively a 'Opps, we missed that.'

 

What is the appropriate way to solve the issue of something that can only happen at a convention, but didn't happen at a convention due to an error?

 

If it helps, our board is empowered to act on behalf of our members between general meetings. 

Many thanks.

[Rob Elsman]

Exactly what did the chair say when he announced the result of the vote?

[U. N. Owen]

I would need to review the record.  Once the video is available I can answer you.

[Josh Martin]

On 3/8/2024 at 3:09 PM, U. N. Owen said:

At a recent convention, delegates were elected to represent the body at a gathering of sister organizations.  There was a tie, and while the convention rules dictate how to break  a tie, the tie was not broken since no vote to break the tie was done.  This was a mistake and not willfully done.  Effectively a 'Opps, we missed that.'

I concur with Mr. Elsman that we cannot conclusively answer this question until we know what the chair announced as the results of the vote.

I believe what I am understanding to be the case, however, is that the assembly elected more delegates to the "gathering of sister organizations" then it was entitled to, because there was a tie for one of the last spots, and the assembly neglected to break the tie.

On 3/8/2024 at 3:09 PM, U. N. Owen said:

What is the appropriate way to solve the issue of something that can only happen at a convention, but didn't happen at a convention due to an error?

I'm doubtful there is a way for the organization to correct this error. I think the organization will simply have to report the error to the Credentials Committee for the "gathering of sister organizations," and they'll have to sort it out.

On 3/8/2024 at 3:09 PM, U. N. Owen said:

If it helps, our board is empowered to act on behalf of our members between general meetings. 

I don't think it does help, unless the board is specifically empowered to resolve challenges to the results of an election. Unless they do, only the convention can address such challenges, and I gather having the convention meet again is impossible (or at least impractical).

"Because the voting body itself is the ultimate judge of election disputes, only that body has the authority to resolve them in the absence of a bylaw or special rule of order that specifically grants another body that authority. Thus, for example, when an election has been conducted at a membership meeting or in a convention of delegates, an executive board, even one that is given full power and authority over the society's affairs between meetings of the body that conducted the election, may not entertain a point of order challenging, or direct a recount concerning, the announced election result. While an election dispute is immediately pending before the voting body, however, it may vote to refer the dispute to a committee or board to which it delegates power to resolve the dispute." RONR (12th ed.) 46:50

Edited March 9, 2024 at 02:22 PM by Josh Martin

[U. N. Owen]

On 3/9/2024 at 9:19 AM, Josh Martin said:

the assembly elected more delegates to the "gathering of sister organizations" then it was entitled to, because there was a tie for one of the last spots, and the assembly neglected to break the tie.

Not quite.  Our rules dictate that the delegates are ordered according to the number of votes cast for them, with each ballot being able to include votes up to the total allocation.  If there total was 10 possible delegates, than each ballot could include votes for up to 10 candidates.  If you receive enough votes to be in the top 10, than you are a delegate.  If there is a tie for the last place (or last two places in our situation), than another round of voting, restricted to the candidates in the tie, should have been conducted.

Relating our case to the example above, the top 8 vote getters are not in question.  Four candidates received enough votes to be qualified for the 9th and 10th slot. Our rules dictate another round of voting. This last bit was missed.

 

Is there a method to open voting to the voting body that originally cast these ballots, so they can break the tie?

[Josh Martin]

On 3/11/2024 at 2:15 PM, U. N. Owen said:

Not quite.  Our rules dictate that the delegates are ordered according to the number of votes cast for them, with each ballot being able to include votes up to the total allocation.  If there total was 10 possible delegates, than each ballot could include votes for up to 10 candidates.  If you receive enough votes to be in the top 10, than you are a delegate.  If there is a tie for the last place (or last two places in our situation), than another round of voting, restricted to the candidates in the tie, should have been conducted.

Relating our case to the example above, the top 8 vote getters are not in question.  Four candidates received enough votes to be qualified for the 9th and 10th slot. Our rules dictate another round of voting. This last bit was missed.

Okay. Thank you for the additional facts, but I don't think this changes anything.

It still seems to me that, as a result of neglecting to break the tie, the convention is entitled to 10 delegates, but has elected 12. As you say, "the top 8 vote getters are not in question," but it's not clear how to resolve the last two spots.

By any chance do you also get alternates to the convention in question? Perhaps two of the persons in question would be willing to voluntarily accept a position as an alternate instead.

Failing that, I'm not quite sure how to resolve this. Certainly, the convention itself could resolve it... if there is a mechanism to have the convention meet again, and in a timely manner.

The board does not have the authority to resolve this issue, unless the bylaws so provide.

So I still think this most likely ends with a letter to the Credentials Committee for the higher-level convention explaining the situation and apologizing profusely. Perhaps it could include a suggested resolution to the situation.

We also still need an answer to Mr. Elsman's question about what the chair announced as the results of the vote.

On 3/11/2024 at 2:15 PM, U. N. Owen said:

Is there a method to open voting to the voting body that originally cast these ballots, so they can break the tie?

I don't know. Do your bylaws provide any mechanism to "reconvene" the convention, or to call a special convention? And if so, is it possible to do that in time to resolve the issue?

To the extent such a convention can be called, sure.

Edited March 11, 2024 at 08:11 PM by Josh Martin

[U. N. Owen]

On 3/11/2024 at 4:04 PM, Josh Martin said:

We also still need an answer to Mr. Elsman's question about what the chair announced as the results of the vote.

I have a request to the Secretary for the video / minutes.  Once I have it I will transcribe what was announced.