Debate when suspending a rule- how to do it, can we do it?

[Guest Peter Deg]

Our organization has a policy that states that after the annual fundraiser is held, 50% of the income goes to the Youth fund and 50% goes to the Benevolence fund. 

Our Board would like the membership to consider  suspending that rule and just for this year (we don't want to rescind or amend something previously adopted, we like the rule in general).  The motion would be "suspend the rules for the  annual fundraiser so that 50% of the income goes to offset the deficit, 25% to the Youth fund and 25% to the Benevolence fund."

We understand that the motion to suspend the rules is not debatable.  We are also in agreement that we would like to have debate on this motion.  Is there a way to do that?  "Suspend the rules both that suspending the rules is undebatable and rules of  the annual fundraiser policy so that 50% of the annual fundraiser income goes to offset the deficit etc..."

Are we grasping at straws here in trying to have our cake and eat it too?  Or is there another way to frame the motion? "amend the previously adopted motion by inserting "except for 2024 when 50% of the income goes to offset the deficit..."

[Joshua Katz]

Debate is not your problem. Your problem is that the rule is not suspendable, as it has its application outside the meeting context.

[Bruce Lages]

I don't understand your reluctance to use the motion to Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted (RONR, §35), because it seems that motion is more aligned with what you want to do than the motion to Suspend the Rules. Specifically, you would amend the portion of the policy that stipulates where the fundraiser income goes to include debt reduction and assign your desired percentages. Amending Something Previously Adopted is debatable and requires a 2/3 vote or a majority of the entire membership, or a majority vote if previous notice of the motion is given. I think the motion could be adopted together with a proviso that the amendment will be effective for the current fundraiser only, or, if necessary, a second Amend Something Previously Adopted motion could be passed after the fundraiser funds have been distributed to return the policy to its original state.  

[Joshua Katz]

Or they could amend it to add a provision: in 2024, the percentages shall be...

[Guest Peter Deg]

Thanks for the help.  Essentially the issue seems to be that we have a rule that has force outside of a meeting and can't be temporarily suspended.  At the same time, let's say, over 10 years, where we want to ask the membership to allow an exception to the rule maybe 3 times, we don't want to have a policy that has several amendments like "except in 2024 the percentages will be, and in 2027 the percentages will be."  Of course, in 2027 we could strike the 2024 language when adding the language for that year if we again amend something previously adopted.  

I'm thinking now that the motion could be amended to read "in 2024 the allocation of income from the annul fundraiser will be 50% to offset the deficit, 25% to the Youth fund and 25% to the Benevolence fund and in future years. Unless a two thirds vote of the membership determines another allocation, after the annual fundraiser is held, 50% of the income goes to the Youth fund and 50% goes to the Benevolence fund. 

This would allow for what it appears a large majority of the membership is seeking- the board to carry out a particular allocation pattern except when the board determines that another pattern might be prudent in which case the membership has the right to hear the board and have the final say. 

[Atul Kapur]

To avoid a future question about the denominator of such a vote (see many other threads), might I suggest

"after the annual fundraiser is held, 50% of the income goes to the Youth fund and 50% goes to the Benevolence fund unless the membership determines another allocation by a two thirds vote. Notwithstanding the above, in 2024 the allocation of income from the annu[a]l fundraiser will be 50% to offset the deficit, 25% to the Youth fund and 25% to the Benevolence fund and in future years."

You might want to specify a deadline for the membership to change the allocation for a particular year, perhaps "... unless the membership, before the fundraiser begins, determines another allocation ..."

Alternatives include

• a specific date
• when the budget is adopted

 

By the way, is that gross or net income? Whatever the answer is, you may want to specify while you're amending the other stuff.

Edited April 17, 2024 at 06:50 PM by Atul Kapur

[Josh Martin]

On 4/16/2024 at 7:31 PM, Guest Peter Deg said:

Our organization has a policy that states that after the annual fundraiser is held, 50% of the income goes to the Youth fund and 50% goes to the Benevolence fund. 

Our Board would like the membership to consider  suspending that rule and just for this year (we don't want to rescind or amend something previously adopted, we like the rule in general).  The motion would be "suspend the rules for the  annual fundraiser so that 50% of the income goes to offset the deficit, 25% to the Youth fund and 25% to the Benevolence fund."

We understand that the motion to suspend the rules is not debatable.  We are also in agreement that we would like to have debate on this motion.  Is there a way to do that?  "Suspend the rules both that suspending the rules is undebatable and rules of  the annual fundraiser policy so that 50% of the annual fundraiser income goes to offset the deficit etc..."

Are we grasping at straws here in trying to have our cake and eat it too?  Or is there another way to frame the motion? "amend the previously adopted motion by inserting "except for 2024 when 50% of the income goes to offset the deficit..."

The rule in question cannot be suspended.

You could, however, use a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted to create an exception to the rule, and that motion would be debatable.

On 4/17/2024 at 8:56 AM, Guest Peter Deg said:

Thanks for the help.  Essentially the issue seems to be that we have a rule that has force outside of a meeting and can't be temporarily suspended.  At the same time, let's say, over 10 years, where we want to ask the membership to allow an exception to the rule maybe 3 times, we don't want to have a policy that has several amendments like "except in 2024 the percentages will be, and in 2027 the percentages will be."  Of course, in 2027 we could strike the 2024 language when adding the language for that year if we again amend something previously adopted.  

If the assembly wishes to provide a mechanism for this rule to be suspended, the organization is free to amend the rule to provide as much.

On 4/17/2024 at 8:56 AM, Guest Peter Deg said:

I'm thinking now that the motion could be amended to read "in 2024 the allocation of income from the annul fundraiser will be 50% to offset the deficit, 25% to the Youth fund and 25% to the Benevolence fund and in future years. Unless a two thirds vote of the membership determines another allocation, after the annual fundraiser is held, 50% of the income goes to the Youth fund and 50% goes to the Benevolence fund. 

Yes, this is permissible, although for clarity I would suggest the language "Unless the membership, by a two-thirds vote determines another allocation..."