Removal of President

[Guest Cathy L]

We recently have had a situation with our Association President . During our annual spring meeting, before votes were to take place, a few members questioned the nomination process and voting qualifications according to the bylaws. The President had changed the nominating procedure this year so that all nominations were sent to the nomination committee and were closed before the slate was handed out to voting members. The the President proceeded to invite other members who had never attended meetings before to join and participate - or vote as he mentioned to them. 

the bylaws did state a nominating committee would be used and a slate of nominations given to the secretary. beyond that there is no mention of how nominations would be closed and in past years we always had floor nominations. The members were questioning why the change and why no further nominations were allowed. No one was aware this would be changed until the slate was handed out. 

Our membership requirements are also spelled out in the bylaws, as well as who is qualified to vote . But the newer members who attended the meeting to vote did not meet those qualifications. The President tried to explain this away by stating the Association as a whole had never followed those bylaws when it came to voting. But the regular attending members were questioning the situation and wanted further discussion on voting qualifications. 

The issue came about because the President was trying to remove two board members and their positions were the only ones with challengers in nominations, and the voters who were encouraged to come to the meeting for the first time were all friendly with the two new nominees. 

a motion was made to postpone the vote until the bylaws could be discussed in regards to nomination process and voting qualifications. At this point the President became upset and began to yell and swear at members. He threw furniture in his anger, berated other members, even making degrading comments about their family members, screamed he was resigning and left the room. We also received two complaints from members outlining his behavior that night and requesting his removal.

Our bylaws state any member of the executive or Finance Committee or Officer may be removed for a just and stated cause by a vote of not less than two thirds of the Executive Committee voting in any duly convened meeting of the Executive Committee provided that this intention is incorporated in the notice of the meeting. Would his actions during the meeting be considered Just and Stated Cause for removal?

Our exec Committee chair called a meeting of the committee , who were all present at the meeting where the President had exhibited poor behavior. He put the meeting at 15 days and sent a letter directly to the President stating the nature of the meeting. 

I know this was long and I apologize. Is there anything else we could or should have done? does he require a trial? Does the VP step up until such time as the next vote (the motion to postpone was passed until December)? The President has been in his position for a long time, since we do not have Max limits, and i think he just got too comfortable. But i am trying to think ahead of any arguments he might make that would keep him in office, 

 

[Gary Novosielski]

<Deleted>

Edited June 22, 2024 at 07:15 PM by Gary Novosielski

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/22/2024 at 2:46 PM, Guest Cathy L said:

Our bylaws state any member of the executive or Finance Committee or Officer may be removed for a just and stated cause by a vote of not less than two thirds of the Executive Committee voting in any duly convened meeting of the Executive Committee provided that this intention is incorporated in the notice of the meeting. Would his actions during the meeting be considered Just and Stated Cause for removal?

They are, if a two-thirds vote in the Executive Committee says that they are.

The President should not preside over the motion to remove him, and the VP should preside in his place, but he cannot be compelled to relinquish the chair or abstain from voting on the proposal.  Actually, that's not quite true —by a motion to Suspend the Rules (see RONR 12th ed. §25), (requiring a two-thirds vote) he can be temporarily removed from the chair, but he would retain the rights to debate and vote.

Edited June 22, 2024 at 07:29 PM by Gary Novosielski

[Guest Cathy L]

On 6/22/2024 at 3:16 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

 

The President should not preside over the motion to remove him, and the VP should preside in his place, but he cannot be compelled to relinquish the chair or abstain from voting on the proposal.  Actually, that's not quite true —by a motion to Suspend the Rules (see RONR 12th ed. §25), (requiring a two-thirds vote) he can be temporarily removed from the chair, but he would retain the rights to debate and vote.

if the Executive Committee is the committee debating and voting and the President is usually the Ex officio of the executive, does this mean the VP should now be considered Ex Officio of this particular meeting of the Exec Committee? This is not a full assembly meeting. We have not temporarily removed him from his seat, except at the end of the last meeting after he stormed out. 

[Joshua Katz]

I have a question:

On 6/22/2024 at 11:46 AM, Guest Cathy L said:

a motion was made to postpone the vote until the bylaws could be discussed in regards to nomination process and voting qualifications. At this point the President became upset and began to yell and swear at members. He threw furniture in his anger, berated other members, even making degrading comments about their family members, screamed he was resigning and left the room. We also received two complaints from members outlining his behavior that night and requesting his removal.

 

Why not just vote to accept the resignation?

[Guest Cathy L]

On 6/22/2024 at 5:48 PM, Joshua Katz said:

I have a question:

Why not just vote to accept the resignation?

can we do that two weeks later? He screamed it out but i think everyone was in such shock no one made a motion to accept. Our VP stepped up and called the motion to postpone to a vote and then closed meeting. For some  reason someone said his resignation should be in writing if we didn't motion to accept at that time. 

[Joshua Katz]

On 6/22/2024 at 5:15 PM, Guest Cathy L said:

can we do that two weeks later? He screamed it out but i think everyone was in such shock no one made a motion to accept. Our VP stepped up and called the motion to postpone to a vote and then closed meeting. For some  reason someone said his resignation should be in writing if we didn't motion to accept at that time. 

In my opinion, if he hasn't made any attempt to withdraw his resignation, you can still accept it.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/22/2024 at 4:13 PM, Guest Cathy L said:

if the Executive Committee is the committee debating and voting and the President is usually the Ex officio of the executive, does this mean the VP should now be considered Ex Officio of this particular meeting of the Exec Committee? This is not a full assembly meeting. We have not temporarily removed him from his seat, except at the end of the last meeting after he stormed out. 

Ex-officio is not a noun, it is an adjective.   Ex officio what?  Member?  Chair?   

But no.  If the bylaws specify that the president is an ex-officio member of all committees, this does not apply to the executive committee which, in spite of its name is a board, not a committee.   But if he is explicitly an ex-officio member of the EC, or any committees, this does not extend to the vice president. 

If the president is presiding officer at the EC, then he can be removed from the chair for that meeting by a motion to Suspend the Rules and remove him.  In that case, the VP would preside if also a member of the EC.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/22/2024 at 8:15 PM, Guest Cathy L said:

can we do that two weeks later? He screamed it out but i think everyone was in such shock no one made a motion to accept. Our VP stepped up and called the motion to postpone to a vote and then closed meeting. For some  reason someone said his resignation should be in writing if we didn't motion to accept at that time. 

Resignations are usually submitted in writing to the Secretary, but if offered verbally in a meeting, they are considered to have been properly submitted.  

I don't see the point of accepting the resignation at this point, although there's no rule against it, but since his term is over, it is meaningless.

Edited June 23, 2024 at 02:45 PM by Gary Novosielski
strike as shown

[Joshua Katz]

On 6/22/2024 at 6:00 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

I don't see the point of accepting the resignation at this point, although there's no rule against it, but since his term is over, it is meaningless.

Well there's this:

On 6/22/2024 at 11:46 AM, Guest Cathy L said:

a motion was made to postpone the vote until the bylaws could be discussed in regards to nomination process and voting qualifications. At this point the President became upset and began to yell and swear at members. He threw furniture in his anger, berated other members, even making degrading comments about their family members, screamed he was resigning and left the room. We also received two complaints from members outlining his behavior that night and requesting his removal.

 

 

On 6/22/2024 at 11:46 AM, Guest Cathy L said:

I know this was long and I apologize. Is there anything else we could or should have done? does he require a trial? Does the VP step up until such time as the next vote (the motion to postpone was passed until December)? The President has been in his position for a long time, since we do not have Max limits, and i think he just got too comfortable. But i am trying to think ahead of any arguments he might make that would keep him in office, 

 

 

[Richard Brown]

On 6/22/2024 at 4:48 PM, Joshua Katz said:

Why not just vote to accept the resignation?

 

On 6/22/2024 at 7:50 PM, Joshua Katz said:

In my opinion, if he hasn't made any attempt to withdraw his resignation, you can still accept it.

I agree. A verbal resignation made in a meeting is valid and can be accepted. It does not need to be accepted on the spot. If it has not been withdrawn, Just accepting the resignation seems like a quick and easy solution. 

[Richard Brown]

On 6/22/2024 at 2:16 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

. . . by a motion to Suspend the Rules (see RONR 12th ed. §25), (requiring a two-thirds vote) he can be temporarily removed from the chair, but he would retain the rights to debate and vote

The motion to suspend the rules and remove the chair from presiding for all or part of a meeting is actually described in detail in section 62:12 of RONR (12th ed.) 

[Gary Novosielski]

On 6/22/2024 at 9:03 PM, Joshua Katz said:

Well there's this:

 

 

Yes, I think I got two questions confused.  But yes, the resignation can still be accepted if not withdrawn sooner.