Declaring Presidency Vacant

[Weldon Merritt]

I am the Vice President of a group that meets virtually only (in accordance with our bylaws). The president retired earlier this year from employment through which he was able to receive emails, and he no longer has ready access. He also is unable to log in to Zoom, but for a few months he called in by phone and was able to chair the meeting that way. For the last several months, however, he has not called in, and has not responded to several attempts to contact him. None of the other members have heard from him either.

I have, of course, been chairing the meetings in the meantime, and could just continuing to do so until our election in a couple of months. For several reasons, however, it would be advantageous if I actually were the president for the remaining couple of meetings. (I don't mean advantageous to me; I mean to the functioning of the group.) So my question is, could the assembly legitimately declare the office of president vacant, so that I would automatically assume the office for the remainder of the term? The term of office is defined in the bylaws as "one year, or until their successors are elected and assume office." (Emphasis added.)

 

[Dan Honemann]

Well, yes, the assembly could remove your president from office by the adoption of a motion to do so in accordance with 62:16.

But since I know you already know this, I'm wondering why you ask?

[Josh Martin]

On 10/8/2024 at 9:13 PM, Weldon Merritt said:

So my question is, could the assembly legitimately declare the office of president vacant, so that I would automatically assume the office for the remainder of the term? The term of office is defined in the bylaws as "one year, or until their successors are elected and assume office." (Emphasis added.)

No, the assembly cannot simply "declare the office of president vacant," unless the organization's bylaws so provide.

The assembly may, however, remove the President through the disciplinary procedures specified in the organization's bylaws or, if the bylaws are silent, through the adoption of a motion to do so. Since the bylaws provide that officers serve one year or until their successors are elected, such a motion may be introduced the same as any other main motion, and it requires for its adoption a 2/3 vote, a vote of a majority of the entire membership, or a majority vote with previous notice. The adoption of such a motion will cause the office of President to become vacant, in which event the Vice President (you) will automatically become President for the remainder of the term.

Edited October 9, 2024 at 12:40 PM by Josh Martin

[Dan Honemann]

On 10/9/2024 at 8:40 AM, Josh Martin said:

No, the assembly cannot simply "declare the office of president vacant," unless the organization's bylaws so provide.

Offering a motion declaring the office of president vacant seems pretty much the same, for all intents and purposes, as offering a motion "that Joe Doaks is hereby removed from the office of President", and would require the same vote for its adoption.

I suppose a danger does exist that such a motion may be confused with a motion to declare the chair vacant (47:11(3)), and for this reason ought to be avoided.

 

[Weldon Merritt]

On 10/9/2024 at 6:37 AM, Dan Honemann said:

But since I know you already know this, I'm wondering why you ask?

I just want to make sure I am not overlooking something obvious.

On 10/9/2024 at 8:57 AM, Dan Honemann said:

Offering a motion declaring the office of president vacant seems pretty much the same, for all intents and purposes, as offering a motion "that Joe Doaks is hereby removed from the office of President", and would require the same vote for its adoption.

One more question. How much effort do we need to put into trying to notify the current president of the meeting. given that he is unlikely to receive an email notice? Our bylaws do not require that we give notice of a regular meeting, although we do send a reminder a few days in advance. And the meetings are always at the same time on the second Saturday of the month and via the sane Zoom link, so the president should have that information. Finally, our bylaws allow all communications to be sent electronically.

[Dan Honemann]

I think what you should do is to send out the same notice that you have customarily been sending out for these regular meetings, although, based solely upon what you have posted, it would appear that you are not required to send any notice at all.

Making any further effort to notify your president of this upcoming regular meeting is entirely up to you.

You will, of course, have to give all members previous notice of the intent to make this motion to remove your president from office if you want to be able to adopt it by majority vote.

Edited October 9, 2024 at 03:09 PM by Dan Honemann
Added the last paragraph.

[Weldon Merritt]

Thanks, Dan. That's pretty much what I thougt.

[Atul Kapur]

On 10/9/2024 at 10:34 AM, Weldon Merritt said:

How much effort do we need to put into trying to notify the current president of the meeting. given that he is unlikely to receive an email notice?

You know he has a phone ("for a few months he called in by phone"). I'd suggest it would be fair to try to find out his number, if this is not already known, and try to reach out to him that way.

Yes, I expect and am almost certain that you have already done this ("not responded to several attempts to contact him"), but this entire thread is predicated on not making any assumptions about things that would appear to be obvious. 😉

[Weldon Merritt]

On 10/9/2024 at 11:35 PM, Atul Kapur said:

You know he has a phone ("for a few months he called in by phone"). I'd suggest it would be fair to try to find out his number, if this is not already known, and try to reach out to him that way.

Thanks, Atul. Yes, I have personally tried to reach him by phone, to no avail. But I suppose it's worth one more try.

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 10/9/2024 at 8:40 AM, Josh Martin said:

No, the assembly cannot simply "declare the office of president vacant," unless the organization's bylaws so provide.

I think the question is whether at some point the organization can declare that as a matter of fact the office has been abandoned and is vacant.

[Weldon Merritt]

On 10/15/2024 at 10:20 AM, Shmuel Gerber said:

I think the question is whether at some point the organization can declare that as a matter of fact the office has been abandoned and is vacant.

Yes, I think that is a better way to state it.

Weldon

[Dan Honemann]

On 10/15/2024 at 11:20 AM, Shmuel Gerber said:

I think the question is whether at some point the organization can declare that as a matter of fact the office has been abandoned and is vacant.

Just by a plain old main motion?

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 10/15/2024 at 12:09 PM, Dan Honemann said:

Just by a plain old main motion?

Yes, which would only be necessary if there is some question as to whether or not the office is in fact vacant.

For another example, suppose there are rumors that the president has left the community and therefore is no longer eligible, or has died or is lost at sea, but no one knows for sure.

I suppose it would be a question of privilege, like a motion to accept a resignation. 

[J. J.]

On 10/15/2024 at 12:24 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

 

For another example, suppose there are rumors that the president has left the community and therefore is no longer eligible, or has died or is lost at sea, but no one knows for sure.

And if those rumors are incorrect? 

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 10/15/2024 at 1:19 PM, J. J. said:

And if those rumors are incorrect? 

Then the office is not yet vacant.

[J. J.]

On 10/15/2024 at 2:05 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

Then the office is not yet vacant.

Then how can you fill the vacancy?  And, how can you declare an office vacant, excluding the temporary chair type thing, that is not vacant? 

[Josh Martin]

On 10/15/2024 at 10:20 AM, Shmuel Gerber said:

I think the question is whether at some point the organization can declare that as a matter of fact the office has been abandoned and is vacant.

I understand. And in my view, the answer is no. (Or at least, the answer is no unless we imagine some very unusual circumstances.)

Generally, a motion of this nature is unnecessary, because it is either:

• Obvious that the office is vacant; or
• The motion is a euphemism for removing the officer

On 10/15/2024 at 11:24 AM, Shmuel Gerber said:

Yes, which would only be necessary if there is some question as to whether or not the office is in fact vacant.

For another example, suppose there are rumors that the president has left the community and therefore is no longer eligible, or has died or is lost at sea, but no one knows for sure.

I suppose it would be a question of privilege, like a motion to accept a resignation. 

If it is believed that the President is no longer eligible, then a Point of Order should be raised to that effect, and the matter would be resolved through a Point of Order and Appeal.

If the President is dead, then I am certainly in agreement that this would cause the office to be vacant. Generally it is not in debate whether the President is dead, but I suppose if there is some confusion on this point, then the matter might be resolved by means of a motion declaring that, to the best of the organization's knowledge, the President is dead, and the office is therefore vacant.

This may lead to some confusion if it later turns out the President is not, in fact, dead, so I think it would generally be preferable to remove the officer if the society is uncertain as to whether the officer is alive.

So far as I am aware, there is no suggestion in the present instance that any of these circumstances are applicable.

Edited October 15, 2024 at 10:56 PM by Josh Martin