re-opening a matter that has been voted upon

[Guest Toresa]

Is it possible to reopen a matter that has been voted upon, in a situation in which there were quite a few abstentions? (Members later indicated that they were unclear about the issue. Time was factor and the discussion had continued for a long time.)

[jstackpo]

Yes, by three different methods depending on what happened, first time around, and when that "first time" was...

1) Reconsider the vote: but only at the same meeting or the "next business day".

2) Rescind/amend the motion: if it was adopted a while ago and it is now too late to reconsider.

3) Renew the motion: (i.e., just make it again): if it was defeated last time around and it's again too late to reconsider.

See RONR for all the rules about these three approaches.

[Trina]

...

1) Reconsider the vote: but only at the same meeting or the "next business day".

...

This 'business day' reference sounds confusing (to me, anyway). Sounds, for example, as though a vote taken on Friday could be reconsidered at another meeting held on Monday (which would be the next business day, in common parlance).

'In a convention or session of more than one day, a reconsideration can be moved only on the same day the original vote was taken or on the next succeeding day within the session on which a business meeting is held.' (RONR p. 305, emphasis added)

[jstackpo]

Trina is quite correct in her citation - I was just being terse about the "next business day" rule - it's early in the morning, after all.

[Trina]

Trina is quite correct in her citation - I was just being terse about the "next business day" rule - it's early in the morning, after all.

My apologies for being persnickety. It's just that the reference to 'next business day' sent me searching in RONR, to see if I had previously missed this option for the motion to reconsider.

[Guest JayL]

So, if: (1) motion is made at Meeting #1 and motion fails for lack of second or lack of sufficient votes (and motion therefore neither passes nor fails); and (2) second meeting is convened more than a week later at which members wish to consider same matter, can they reopen the matter thru either a motion to rescind/amend motion or motion to renew motion? Who may make motion to rescind/amend? Motion to renew? Is it only the original maker of the motion?

[Matt Schafer]

So, if: (1) motion is made at Meeting #1 and motion fails for lack of second or lack of sufficient votes (and motion therefore neither passes nor fails); and (2) second meeting is convened more than a week later at which members wish to consider same matter, can they reopen the matter thru either a motion to rescind/amend motion or motion to renew motion? Who may make motion to rescind/amend? Motion to renew? Is it only the original maker of the motion?

First, if a motion dies for lack of a second, it is as if the motion was never made in the first place. It can be made again at any time by any member, even during the same meeting.

Second, I'm not entirely certain I understand how a motion can fail for lack of sufficient votes, and then not pass nor fail. If there aren't sufficient votes to adopt the motion, then the motion has been voted on and was not adopted. (It failed.) Assuming that the motion was voted on and was lost because there weren't enough affirmative votes, then the same motion cannot be made again during the same session. (See notes below.)

In a later session (the length of time between sessions is generally unimportant), any member may make the motion again. Treat the situation as if the motion had not been made during the last session. There is no special motion to renew, and the motions to Rescind or to Amend Something Previously Adopted are only used for motions that have actually been adopted in the past.

Notes about sessions: The rules for what is a meeting and what is a session are complicated. See RONR (10th ed.), pp. 79-87 for a full explanation. For most organizations, a meeting is its own session. One exception is that if a meeting has not finished its order of business, and an "adjourned meeting" is set before the first meeting ends, both meetings are part of the same session.

[Josh Martin]

Second, I'm not entirely certain I understand how a motion can fail for lack of sufficient votes, and then not pass nor fail. If there aren't sufficient votes to adopt the motion, then the motion has been voted on and was not adopted. (It failed.)

Some assemblies require that a certain proportion of the entire membership must vote on a motion for the vote be valid. I've seen it in student governments with regard to referendums in which the entire student body votes via absentee methods. This is not, of course, a situation addressed in RONR, so it would be up to the assembly to determine how failing to meet the threshold would be treated. In my experience, it's often treated as if the entire vote is invalid. This is not surprising, as the intent of such provisions is analogous to quorum requirements for in-person meetings. This is important, as the outcome of such referendums is usually binding upon the elected student government, so the distinction between a "no" vote and an "invalid" referendum is more than just semantics.

It could be that this organization has a similar provision. The solution, however, would remain the same - renew the motion at the next session.