Election of officers

[Guest cherokee Brasher]

When you have an election of officers and there is a tie vote, what do you do to decide the winner?

[Tim Wynn]

When you have an election of officers and there is a tie vote, what do you do to decide the winner?

Reballot as needed.

I'm told it took 36 ballots for the House of Representatives to elect Thomas Jefferson... but I wasn't at that meeting.

[Guest Cherokee Brasher]

The election had absentee ballots, so do you reschedule a vote, like a a runnoff?

[Tim Wynn]

The election had absentee ballots, so do you reschedule a vote, like a a runnoff?

RONR advises that a process should never be used that mixes absentee ballots with ballots cast in a meeting... and you're seeing why.

[Guest Edgar]

The election had absentee ballots, so do you reschedule a vote, like a a runnoff?

Yes, you reschedule a vote. But it's not a run-off. All candidates remain on the ballot, not just the two who tied for first place.

[Guest Guest]

So what should the organization do?

[jstackpo]

Presuming your bylaws allow absentee votes, you...

a. revote with ALL voters given the chance to vote again,

and

b. keep ALL the original candidates on the ballot - RONR, p. 441.

[jstackpo]

If ties keep showing up, open the floor (at a meeting) for further nominations. A "dark horse", compromise candidate may show up. Everybody's second choice, so to speak.

[Guest Guest]

There were only two candidates and likely the vote will remain the same on a reballot. Is there a coin toss or something that would be legitimate?

[Tim Wynn]

There were only two candidates and likely the vote will remain the same on a reballot. Is there a coin toss or something that would be legitimate?

RONR doesn't provide for a substitute for the decision being made by the members.

[Guest Guest]

Thanks for your help. In the future elections, should absentee ballots not be used? Is there a section that gives that?

[Tim Wynn]

Thanks for your help. In the future elections, should absentee ballots not be used? Is there a section that gives that?

See RONR (11th ed.), p. 423, l. 17 - p. 424, l. 2.

[Chris Harrison]

RONR doesn't provide for a substitute for the decision being made by the members.

Couldn't the rules be suspended to allow for the election to be determined by a coin flip, a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, drawing straws, etc?

[George Mervosh]

Couldn't the rules be suspended to allow for the election to be determined by a coin flip, a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, drawing straws, etc?

Not if a vote by ballot is required......and guest_guest has said they're voting by ballot.

[Chris Harrison]

Not if a vote by ballot is required......and guest_guest has said they're voting by ballot.

I understand that they are using absentee ballots but I wonder if the bylaws require that a ballot be used for the election of if voting by ballot (present and absentee) is an option but not a requirement.

[Tim Wynn]

Couldn't the rules be suspended to allow for the election to be determined by a coin flip, a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, drawing straws, etc?

No, it is a fundamental principal of parliamentary law that each member is entitled to a vote on a question. While a question may be disposed of without a direct vote on it, I don't see that the rules can be suspended to allow a question to be decided by a game of chance, thereby denying members the right to vote on that question.

[George Mervosh]

No, it is a fundamental principal of parliamentary law that each member is entitled to a vote on a question. While a question may be disposed of without a direct vote on it, I don't see that the rules can be suspended to allow a question to be decided by a game of chance, thereby denying members the right to vote on that question.

Aren't the members voting on flipping the coin?

[Tim Wynn]

Aren't the members voting on flipping the coin?

Yep, but what about a member who votes against it, who wants to cast a vote in the election? The assembly can't deny that right.

In any event, a FPPL cannot be suspended, even by a unanimous vote, and I say suspending the rules to give the decision-making power to a coin (nonmember) would be governed by that rule.

[Dan Honemann]

Yep, but what about a member who votes against it, who wants to cast a vote in the election? The assembly can't deny that right.

In any event, a FPPL cannot be suspended, even by a unanimous vote, and I say suspending the rules to give the decision-making power to a coin (nonmember) would be governed by that rule.

I think you will find that, unless a ballot vote is required, there is precious little that anyone can do to prevent a majority from electing whoever it wishes to elect by whatever means it wishes to elect him.

[Tim Wynn]

I think you will find that, unless a ballot vote is required, there is precious little that anyone can do to prevent a majority from electing whoever it wishes to elect by whatever means it wishes to elect him.

Okay, so, what I'm hearing is that an assembly can adopt a method of voting that does not involve an actual vote, so long as the voting method is adopted by a vote to sufficient to adopt the motion to which it applies.

Therefore, to adopt a coin flip as the method of voting on a motion to limit debate would require a two-thirds vote.

Is that about right?

[Dan Honemann]

Okay, so, what I'm hearing is that an assembly can adopt a method of voting that does not involve an actual vote, so long as the voting method is adopted by a vote to sufficient to adopt the motion to which it applies.

Therefore, to adopt a coin flip as the method of voting on a motion to limit debate would require a two-thirds vote.

Is that about right?

For the time being, just stick to what I said.

[Tim Wynn]

For the time being, just stick to what I said.

Sticking to it.