Dan Honemann

In this case you can ignore the "divergence of opinions" which you rightly say is reflected in this discussion. You originally asked: "What vote is needed now to skip a few tail-end agenda items to adjourn? Simple majority or two-thirds majority?" Mr. Martin's immediate response was: "Generally, a majority vote. A 2/3 vote would be required if a specific time is provided for adjournment and that time has not been reached." The differing opinions all related to the second sentence of this response, which shouldn't concern you at all because it has no application to your situation. (Psst. Just between you and me, that second sentence was and is entirely accurate, but don't tell anybody or you will set off another firestorm. 😃)

I'm afraid that I don't follow what you are saying here because it seems to me that "...at [...] o'clock" means "...at [...] o'clock", and any difference in meaning will be due to the context in which this phrase is found.

Please provide a link to this topic to which you refer.

In your original post you said this: "At the start of the meeting, Chair got the agenda voted on and approved. What vote is needed now to skip a few tail-end agenda items to adjourn?" The discussion became a bit complicated when the assumption was made that the last item on this agenda was Adjournment. Was this the case?

Yes, they could do this, or instead of doing this they could all get up and go home. None of this refutes what I have said concerning what the rules in RONR now say.

I think the motion to adjourn is in order and that a majority vote will be sufficient to adopt it. The adoption of a motion such as the one described in 15:19(b) does not mandate that debate continue until the time prescribed for closing debate. It simply orders that debate shall not be allowed to continue beyond that time.

This may be one way of putting it, although I don't think it is entirely accurate. RONR refers to items on an agenda as "subjects" (41:58), and specifically to adjournment as a "subject" (41:59). The fact is that, unlike recesses, there can be only one adjournment of a meeting, and if an agenda has been adopted setting the time for that adjournment, any incidental main motion attempting to schedule an earlier time will be out of order unless the motion is phrased in such a way as to constitute a motion to amend the adopted agenda, and such a motion will require either a two-thirds vote, or a vote of a majority of the entire membership for adoption. A majority vote will not suffice (41:63).

This response was based upon my belief that you were referring to the sentence with which I disagreed.

Delete it.

I would be interested in learning a bit more about the reasoning behind this distinction you seem to be drawing between the vote required for adoption of subsidiary improper motions and incidental main motions to adjourn prior to a time already set for adjournment in an adopted agenda. In this connection, I think you will agree that: 1. If a time for adjournment is set in an adopted agenda, that adjournment has been made an order of the day, and will constitute either a special order or a general order as those terms are defined in RONR. 2. An order of the day created by the adoption of an agenda cannot be taken up before the time for which it is set except by suspending the rules by a two-thirds vote, since an affirmative vote adopting an agenda cannot be reconsidered. 3. If an incidental main motion is made to amend the previously adopted agenda to change the time set for adjournment, adoption of such a motion will require either a two-thirds vote, or a vote of a majority of the entire membership. A majority vote will not suffice. All three of these statements are clearly set forth in 41:40-42, 41:58-59, 41:63

I agree with the first sentence, but not with the second.

My understanding of the facts in the instant case is that the time fixed for adjournment was contained in an adopted agenda. An affirmative vote to adopt an agenda may not be reconsidered.

The authorship team has not as yet addressed this question.

As I have previously noted, in my opinion Table II, Motion 3 is in error in this respect. 21:3 tells us that when a time for adjourning has already been established, a motion to adjourn is treated just as any other incidental main motion, and 10:8(7)(c) tells us that a two-thirds vote is required for the adoption of such a motion since it has the effect of changing something already adopted. 21:14 seems rather clearly to relate only to a motion to adjourn which is made during a meeting when another meeting has previously been scheduled for the same session.

Won't this depend upon what the item of business is? What if it's a standing committee report?

Since you say that this happened a couple of years ago, it's obviously rather late to be discussing it now. But for purposes of discussion, tell us what the bylaws say about officers terms in office and about filling vacancies in office.

No it doesn't. Only the chair, at a regular or properly called meeting, can announce the result of a vote, and until such time as this occurs, the result of the vote has yet to be determined.

Assuming that the investigation to which you refer is being conducted in accordance with your rules regarding disciplinary proceedings, it would appear that what can be done is being done.

Yes, the minutes should state that the motion to amend the bylaws, after debate and amendment, was adopted as follows, stating exactly what was finally adopted.

If you are allowing absentee members to participate in your meetings in this fashion it must be because your bylaws specifically allow it, and in this case it is incumbent upon your organization to adopt rules to govern the situation you describe.

How so?

The first officers elected are a chairman pro tem and a secretary pro tem to serve until bylaws have been prepared and adopted. Following the adoption of bylaws and the enrollment of members, an election is then held to elect the officers prescribed in the bylaws. For details, see Section 54 in RONR, 12th ed.

The fact is that what you are doing seems to make no sense, and this may be because I don't think that anyone here really understands what you are doing and why.

It appears that the motion to amend the bylaws was amended during its consideration, and then adopted as amended.

I don't know what factual situation Guest mario has in mind. Perhaps he is asking what changes, if any, can be moved while the proposed bylaw amendments are pending for adoption.