Guest Carol Posted February 16, 2011 at 07:55 PM Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 at 07:55 PM Hi, I wold like clarification about the actions of a BoD. A proposal was before the board. A majority of directors voted to approved the proposal but not with the 75% required by the Bylaws of the organization However I am not sure that this By Law pertains to this type of proposal as there is already a timeline for a proposal to be submitted to the board and subsequent actions like voting. Here is the only By law requiring 75% approval by the board Amendments to Rules. Proposed amendments to Rules of XXXX which may be determined by a seventy-five percent [75%] vote of the Board that immediate referral to the members for consideration is in the best interests of XXXX, may be referred to the membership for balloting in the next election issue of the XXXX Bulletin. Publication and balloting process will be in accordance with Article IX of these Bylaws.How do you interpret this?? Do I understand this correctly in saying that if 75 % of the board believes that this proposal is in the best interest of the association it may be referred to the membership for a ballot vote? I find this confusing as there is already a stated timeline for this kind of proposal in the bylaws. One member of the board made the rest of the board aware of this bylaw and said that the proposal was not approved. Hence the proposal was considered "defeated". The same proposal was brought up at the next regular meeting of the board as an agenda item. This time more than 75% of the directors approved the proposal. Because of board approval, the proposal was sent to a subsection of the membership (breed section) which are the ones affected by the change. The breed section voted to approve the change overwhelmingly (11 yes-2 no) which is greater than 60% required by the association bylaws. Now some who don't like the breed section vote are saying that the 2nd board vote where this proposal passed was "illegal" and the subsequent breed section vote was also "illegal". Was the 2nd board vote and breed section vote "illegal" or "legal" under RONR which this association uses for their board meetings and all votes? Also this association has no parliamentarian.Thanks,Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert B Fish Posted February 16, 2011 at 08:31 PM Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 at 08:31 PM Your bylaws are very complex. RONR doesn't contain any rules requiring "readings" etc. So, you will have to decide that's meant by these sections. Raise a point of order that the bylaws were not followed and the chairman will rule whether or not the point of order was well taken. His/her ruling can be appealed. If you wish to have a professional parliamentarian assist, contact one of the national parliamentarian organizations.-Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted February 16, 2011 at 08:43 PM Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 at 08:43 PM Was the 2nd board vote and breed section vote "illegal" or "legal" under RONR which this association uses for their board meetings and all votes? I think it's safe to say you are far afield of any in-depth guidelines RONR might offer as assistance. Your rules are very customized, and as such, your organization will need to interpret what they mean. Pages 570-573 in RONR (10th Edition) offer some advise. The assistance of a parliamentarian may well be in order also. National Association of Parliamentarians213 South Main St.Independence, MO 64050-3850Phone: 888-627-2929Fax: 816-833-3893;e-mail: hq@NAP2.org<<www.]parliamentarians.org>>orAmerican Institute of Parliamentarians550M Ritchie Highway #271Severna Park, MD 21146Phone: 888-664-0428Fax: 410-544-4640e-mail: aip@parliamentaryprocedure.org<<www.parliamentaryprocedure.org>>for a reference or information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carol Posted February 17, 2011 at 01:48 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 01:48 AM Hello All, I will try to simplify the situation. As i see it the big problem/question in my mind is the following:Once a motion has been defeated by not having a large enough majority to be passed, can the same proposal or motion be brought up at the next regular board meeting (which for this association is 6 month later)? I did find info that to reconsider a motion it must happen on the same day. This did not happen. The motion was discussed and voted on again at the next board meeting. That is what some are objecting to- the motion was discussed and approved at the next board meeting. Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted February 17, 2011 at 01:58 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 01:58 AM Hello All, I will try to simplify the situation. As i see it the big problem/question in my mind is the following:Once a motion has been defeated by not having a large enough majority to be passed, can the same proposal or motion be brought up at the next regular board meeting (which for this association is 6 month later)?I did find info that to reconsider a motion it must happen on the same day. This did not happen. The motion was discussed and voted on again at the next board meeting. That is what some are objecting to- the motion was discussed and approved at the next board meeting. CarolThe previously-rejected main motion, or a different one on the same subject, can be made at the next meeting. It is handled just as if the previously-rejected main motion had never been made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carol Posted February 17, 2011 at 04:15 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 04:15 AM Thanks! That is what I wanted to know. There has been great dissension and awful nasty comments have been made about the board and the vote being "illegal". COuld you direct me to where in Robert's Rules of Order is the section that deals with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted February 17, 2011 at 04:24 AM Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 at 04:24 AM COuld you direct me to where in Robert's Rules of Order is the section that deals with this.RONR pp. 325-331. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carol Posted February 21, 2011 at 08:51 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 at 08:51 PM Hi,I have another question related to the subject of this post. It has now come to my attention that another item on the next board meeting (THIS Saturday) although different in wording would have the consequence of (if passed/approved) overturning the vote of the board at the previous (2nd meeting) meeting ( ie this would be the third board meeting with essentially the same topic/motion on the agenda) . Someone has suggested that when this item comes up it be "tabled" by making a motion to do that. However, I am wondering if a better strategy would be to make a motion to postpone indefinitely. Which is the better way to make sure this item/motion can not be discussed again.If the motion was "tabled" what effect would that have on the previous (2nd vote) vote by the board ?Thanks, I am learning a lot by reading this forum!Carol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted February 21, 2011 at 08:57 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 at 08:57 PM Apart from the motion to rescind or amend something previously adopted, no motion is in order that conflicts with a motion previously adopted and still in force (cf RONR p106)If I'm correctly picking up what you're laying down, that motion should be ruled out of order, rather than tabled or postponed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carol Posted February 21, 2011 at 11:03 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 at 11:03 PM I think you understand correctly. Basically what happened is a proposal/motion was defeated at one board meeting. At the next board the same motion/proposal was discussed again, voted and it passed. Now at a third board meeting, a proposal ( while different in wording) will be before the board again that if passed would put us back to the situation before the 2nd board meeting. Should this third proposal be put forth as a motion what would be the best way, tabling, postponing indefinitely or saying that the motion is out of order, to make sure that the decision of the second board meeting is not reversed. I do not want the decision of the 2nd board meeting reversed as I helped write the original proposal that has been discussed at the first and second board meeting. This proposal that may be moved at the board meeting was written by those who did not like the decision of the 2nd board meeting. Does that help clarify the situation?? Also once a motion has been passed, the only way to discuss this again would be through a motion to rescind or motion to amend. It could be difficult to get anything done if every vote could be undone by vote at the next board meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted February 21, 2011 at 11:13 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 at 11:13 PM It could be difficult to get anything done if every vote could be undone by vote at the next board meeting.On the other hand, the assembly should be free to correct mistakes or simply respond to changing conditions. So nothing is carved in stone but it's more difficult to undo something than it is to do it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted February 21, 2011 at 11:40 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 at 11:40 PM Basically what happened is a proposal/motion was defeated at one board meeting. At the next board the same motion/proposal was discussed again, voted and it passed. Now at a third board meeting, a proposal ( while different in wording) will be before the board again that if passed would put us back to the situation before the 2nd board meeting. Should this third proposal be put forth as a motion what would be the best way, tabling, postponing indefinitely or saying that the motion is out of order, to make sure that the decision of the second board meeting is not reversed. I do not want the decision of the 2nd board meeting reversed as I helped write the original proposal that has been discussed at the first and second board meeting. This proposal that may be moved at the board meeting was written by those who did not like the decision of the 2nd board meeting. Does that help clarify the situation?? The motion should be ruled out of order since it conflicts with a motion previously adopted. If the member properly forms this as a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted, the appropriate course of action would be to adopt a motion to Postpone Indefinitely or simply to defeat the motion. A motion to Lay on the Table would be out of order in this instance. It is used to lay a motion aside temporarily so that more urgent business may be attended to. It is not appropriate to use it to kill a motion. See FAQ #13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carol Posted February 22, 2011 at 02:11 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 at 02:11 AM Yes, I do agree that the assembly should be able to correct mistakes. It should be more difficult to undo something than to do it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carol Posted February 22, 2011 at 02:17 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 at 02:17 AM Thanks Josh, I will make sure that this info gets to the right people so we can be prepared to do whatever is necessary.Many people think that to "table" a motion is to kill it. I now know better thanks to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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