mdsiamese Posted March 29, 2011 at 05:59 PM Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 at 05:59 PM My organization has a set of by-laws that includes the organization's phone number. We're moving the headquarters, so the number is changing and needs to be changed in the by-laws. Does this change have to be voted on by the members? Are housekeeping changes such as this covered or discussed in RROO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted March 29, 2011 at 06:12 PM Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 at 06:12 PM My organization has a set of by-laws that includes the organization's phone number. We're moving the headquarters, so the number is changing and needs to be changed in the by-laws. Does this change have to be voted on by the members? Are housekeeping changes such as this covered or discussed in RROO?There really is no such thing as housekeeping changes. Even the most seemingly innocuous changes can be big changes. For example there is a difference between "The panda bear eats shoots and leaves" (which is describing its eating habits) and "The panda bear eats, shoots, and leaves" (which is talking about a homicidal panda who exits the scene of the crime after inflicting the carnage). So yes the bylaws would need to be formally amended. However, I have to ask why on earth you all find it necessary to put the organization's phone number in its bylaws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Lages Posted March 29, 2011 at 06:35 PM Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 at 06:35 PM RONR does address "housekeeping" changes to bylaws on pp. 579-580 under the title "Captions, Headings, and Article and Section numbers". Your organization can decide whether changing the telephone number can be dealt with using the procedures given in this section. However, I do agree with Chris H. that it doesn't seem necessary to have such information in the bylaws to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsiamese Posted March 29, 2011 at 06:42 PM Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 at 06:42 PM Well, they are not really by-laws but treated as by-laws. I just used a term that fit with how the document is treated in our constitution.Thanks for the replies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted March 29, 2011 at 06:46 PM Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 at 06:46 PM Well, they are not really by-laws but treated as by-laws.Well, then the answers you received weren't really correct, but you can treat them as correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted March 29, 2011 at 06:53 PM Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 at 06:53 PM RONR does address "housekeeping" changes to bylaws on pp. 579-580 under the title "Captions, Headings, and Article and Section numbers". Your organization can decide whether changing the telephone number can be dealt with using the procedures given in this section.What is said on pgs. 579-580 doesn't really apply here. That section is about an assembly adopting a resolution allowing the Secretary or a committee to make technical changes in connection with a recent amendment to the Bylaws, and that doesn't seem to be the case here. The Bylaws (or whatever they're actually called) will need to be amended, and while they're at it they may as well just remove the phone number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsiamese Posted March 29, 2011 at 07:34 PM Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 at 07:34 PM Well, then the answers you received weren't really correct, but you can treat them as correct.LOL! What I was looking for was the section on pages 579-580, and it answers my question. I didn't want to write a big explanation, but so that I don't sound like an idiot --The Cat Fanciers Association has a constitution and a set of show rules, the constitution includes two methods to modify the show rules - by presenting a resolution to the member clubs for a vote, or the executive board can modify the show rules. The show rules are how we conduct cat shows and includes such things as our scoring system, how a cat earns points, titles, etc. That's why I said they are sort of like by-laws, but they aren't really by-laws. But we still follow parliamentary procedure to change them. On the inside front cover, the show rules list the address & phone number of CFA, but this isn't part of the rules so that page can be changed as needed and has been changed in the past. However, there is one pesky rule that says "owners should contact the Central Office by phone, (732) 528-9797..." Our CO is moving from New Jersey to Ohio, so the number will change. We can change the front cover easily, but what about that one rule? Someone wants to present a resolution to our delegation at our annual meeting, I think the board should fix it (much easier for the board to make those kind of changes than for a delegation of 600 clubs that have to be pre-noticed, etc.). But after thinking about whether the number needs to be there at all, it doesn't really, so we should remove it from the rule.I thought there was something in RROO about housekeeping changes to documents, and yes there is but it doesn't apply in this situation. I think the best approach is to fix the rule such that it refers to the number on the inside front cover which can be changed as needed. The phone number doesn't need to be listed in a show rule.Anyhow, thanks for the help, I know how to proceed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted April 2, 2011 at 02:32 PM Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 at 02:32 PM LOL! What I was looking for was the section on pages 579-580, and it answers my question. I didn't want to write a big explanation, but so that I don't sound like an idiot --The Cat Fanciers Association has a constitution and a set of show rules, the constitution includes two methods to modify the show rules - by presenting a resolution to the member clubs for a vote, or the executive board can modify the show rules. The show rules are how we conduct cat shows and includes such things as our scoring system, how a cat earns points, titles, etc. That's why I said they are sort of like by-laws, but they aren't really by-laws. But we still follow parliamentary procedure to change them. On the inside front cover, the show rules list the address & phone number of CFA, but this isn't part of the rules so that page can be changed as needed and has been changed in the past. However, there is one pesky rule that says "owners should contact the Central Office by phone, (732) 528-9797..." Our CO is moving from New Jersey to Ohio, so the number will change. We can change the front cover easily, but what about that one rule? Someone wants to present a resolution to our delegation at our annual meeting, I think the board should fix it (much easier for the board to make those kind of changes than for a delegation of 600 clubs that have to be pre-noticed, etc.). But after thinking about whether the number needs to be there at all, it doesn't really, so we should remove it from the rule.I thought there was something in RROO about housekeeping changes to documents, and yes there is but it doesn't apply in this situation. I think the best approach is to fix the rule such that it refers to the number on the inside front cover which can be changed as needed. The phone number doesn't need to be listed in a show rule.Anyhow, thanks for the help, I know how to proceed now.The show rules you describe are in the nature of standing rules that have their application outside of a meeting. Standing rules are adopted and amended as any regular act of the society. See RONR(10th ed.), p. 18.The phone number (or anything else) printed on the cover of the book that contains the rules is not part of the rules. However, if the layout of the book was a creation of the society, through the adoption of a motion, the society would certainly have a say in any change to it.On the other hand, the person or committee responsible for putting the book together, in many instances, would have authority to make such adjustments as ensuring that the proper phone number is used. The constitution, if you don't have separate bylaws, would be equivalent to the bylaws, since it is your governing document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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