Difference between Absentee and proxy voting

[Guest Sam]

What is the difference between absentee and proxy voting?

[Gary Novosielski]

What is the difference between absentee and proxy voting?

Both of them are prohibited by RONR (with proxy voting being much more vehemently so) unless your bylaws contain authorization and, presumably rules on how they are to be done.

Proxy voting is a subset of absentee voting.

Absentee voting is any voting that does not require the voter to be physically present in a meeting in order to cast a vote. In the most common type, the voter mails in a ballot, and that vote is counted.

Proxy voting is voting where someone who is present at the meeting casts the vote(s) of some(one) not present, who has given their authority (proxy) to the person present.

The main difference is that in the most common form of absentee voting, the voting member makes the choice of how to vote. in the most common form of proxy voting, the holder of the proxy has some freedom on how to exercise the power, and may vote however they choose. But there are exceptions to both of those general statements.

Another difference is that one person may hold the proxies of a large number of others--possibly even a majority, and therefore has more voting power. This violates a basic principle of parliamentary law, which is why RONR prohibits it to the maximum extent permissible by law (unless your bylaws or state law mandate it).

[George Mervosh]

Proxy voting is a subset of absentee voting.

Proxy voting is voting where someone who is present at the meeting casts the vote(s) of some(one) not present, who has given their authority (proxy) to the person present.

Neither of these things are necessarily true.

Sam should see RONR, pp. 408-409 and pp. 414-415.

[Guest Sam]

Both of them are prohibited by RONR (with proxy voting being much more vehemently so) unless your bylaws contain authorization and, presumably rules on how they are to be done.

Proxy voting is a subset of absentee voting.

Absentee voting is any voting that does not require the voter to be physically present in a meeting in order to cast a vote. In the most common type, the voter mails in a ballot, and that vote is counted.

Proxy voting is voting where someone who is present at the meeting casts the vote(s) of some(one) not present, who has given their authority (proxy) to the person present.

The main difference is that in the most common form of absentee voting, the voting member makes the choice of how to vote. in the most common form of proxy voting, the holder of the proxy has some freedom on how to exercise the power, and may vote however they choose. But there are exceptions to both of those general statements.

Another difference is that one person may hold the proxies of a large number of others--possibly even a majority, and therefore has more voting power. This violates a basic principle of parliamentary law, which is why RONR prohibits it to the maximum extent permissible by law (unless your bylaws or state law mandate it).

Now what is the difference between absentee voting and a mail-in or electronic vote'?

IOW, why can't an organization put out a motion (Move to paint the clubhouse pink. ( ) yes ( ) no )

to all it's members between meetings and then have that move go forward at the next meeting, assuming is passed by the appropriate vote count?

[Guest Sam]

Neither of these things are necessarily true.

Sam should see RONR, pp. 408-409 and pp. 414-415.

I've read those sections.

Let me ask the question a different way.

Suppose you want to ask the members to vote on a motion, eg 'Move to paint the clubhouse pink ( ) yes ( ) no'

This particular change requires a quorum of members at a meeting to get it changed at a meeting.

But there is never and has never been a quorum of members at the membership meeting - ever.

This is because members are scattered throughout the US.

Can't you just send out a Proposition A type ballot measure to the members of record and have them vote on it?

Whatever the members vote is the way the motion goes?

These security code things are a bitch. I've tried 10 times already.

[George Mervosh]

I've read those sections.

Let me ask the question a different way.

Suppose you want to ask the members to vote on a motion, eg 'Move to paint the clubhouse pink ( ) yes ( ) no'

This particular change requires a quorum of members at a meeting to get it changed at a meeting.

But there is never and has never been a quorum of members at the membership meeting - ever.

This is because members are scattered throughout the US.

Can't you just send out a Proposition A type ballot measure to the members of record and have them vote on it?

Whatever the members vote is the way the motion goes?

These security code things are a bitch. I've tried 10 times already.

Absentee voting requires authorization in the bylaws. If it's not there, you can't.....simple, eh? Plus it's in the pages you read.

(and yes, we've mentioned to the boss lady about the captcha code......but don't push it or she'll ban your IP into oblivion)

Just become a member and it won't be an issue.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

What is the difference between absentee and proxy voting?

• To vote by proxy is indeed to vote absentee.

• But to vote by an absentee method is not always to vote by proxy.

• In absentee voting, the person casting the vote is not physically present.

• In contrast, for in-person voting, the person casting the vote is physically present, with no intermediary person (like a mailman) or thing (like a telephone) intercepting the ballot, or delaying the ballot, and thus putting the ballot at risk to be altered or destroyed.

Proxy voting is a form of absentee voting.

The member who is empowered to vote is not physically present to cast his ballot to the official receptacle or the official teller.

An intermediary person has come between the member who is empowered to vote and the final destination, e.g., official ballot box or the official teller.

Example:

If you hand your ballot to your buddy, and your buddy kindly places your ballot into the ballot box, then you have voted absentee, since the casting was not done by you, but done by an intermediary person.

Example:

If you fax in your vote, or email in your vote, then you have voted absentee, since your casting has been intercepted by a device before your vote reached the official final destination.

To avoid absentee voting, a voter must not allow a person, or allow a device, to come between the voter and the official receptacle (such as a teller or a ballot box).

[George Mervosh]

• To vote by proxy is indeed to vote absentee.

Proxy voting is a form of absentee voting.

Not necessarily.....

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Not necessarily.....

How so?

(The caster might be in person, but the member tied to that vote is not physically present.)

[Gary Novosielski]

Now what is the difference between absentee voting and a mail-in or electronic vote'?

IOW, why can't an organization put out a motion (Move to paint the clubhouse pink. ( ) yes ( ) no )

to all it's members between meetings and then have that move go forward at the next meeting, assuming is passed by the appropriate vote count?

Mail-in voting is a type of absentee voting. Electronic voting can take place in person or remotely (absentee). RONR prohibits both. Your bylaws can overrule the prohibition. Do they? If so, follow what they say. If not, then not.

The basic principles parliamentary law, and the characteristics of a deliberative assembly do not permit transacting business where the members are not together in one place. They bylaws can allow the practice, but they had better contain a complete set of rules of order to use, because RONR will be of little help.

You can "put out information" in advance of a meeting, you can "give notice" of your intent to move something at the next meeting, But to make a motion, there needs to be a properly called meeting with a quorum present, you need to obtain the floor, you need to get a second, and the chair has to state the motion. Between meetings there's no way to "put out a motion".

[George Mervosh]

Not necessarily.....

How so?

(The caster might be in person, but the member tied to that vote is not physically present.)

Without getting into a long discussion here......it's perfectly possible I can be present and hand my proxy to you......

[Gary Novosielski]

If you hand your ballot to your buddy, and your buddy kindly places your ballot into the ballot box, then you have voted absentee, since the casting was not done by you, but done by an intermediary person.

Which is also prohibited. Explain to me how my buddy manages to sneak two ballots into the ballot box if the tellers are doing their job properly. Never mind, I don't wanna know.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Without getting into a long discussion here......

it's perfectly possible I can be present and hand my proxy to you......

Yes, you can be present at a meeting.

But you did not cast your ballot in-person.

Someone, or some thing, cast your vote.

It makes no difference:

(a.) where you were, when you got your ballot/proxy.

(b.) where you were, when you marked your ballot/proxy.

(c.) where you were, when you handed your ballot/proxy to your "buddy."

It does make a difference if the official ballot box or if the official teller got your ballot from somebody else, or from something else.

You will not have voted in person if a fax machine, a computer, or a person, intervened between you (the authorized voter) and the organization's official designated receptacle.

You ballot will have been intercepted. -- The chain of custody is broken.

You are an absentee balloter, at that point.

Even if you are physically present in the meeting hall.