Guest Brian Posted January 16, 2012 at 05:44 PM Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 at 05:44 PM I serve as secretary on several Non-Profit Boards and for some reason recently there has been spirted debate regarding whether the Treasurer's Report should be acknowledged or Approved. I understand the hedging logic of acknowledgement but in the cases of these boards the treasurers reports are line item and show all transactions vs being general in nature (stating only balances, etc). Is there an accepted standard for this? In practice none of these organizations are big enough that they would ever have a formal audit but at the same time demanding that only an acknowlegment is possible seems overly technical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted January 16, 2012 at 05:50 PM Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 at 05:50 PM Unless the Treasurer's Report contains recommendations, the Report is accepted/acknowledged. For example, the Minutes would state: "The Treasurer presented his report which was filed." If the are recommendations, then the report should be approved either as a whole on each recommendation on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted January 16, 2012 at 06:28 PM Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 at 06:28 PM I serve as secretary on several Non-Profit Boards and for some reason recently there has been spirted debate regarding whether the Treasurer's Report should be acknowledged or Approved. I understand the hedging logic of acknowledgement but in the cases of these boards the treasurers reports are line item and show all transactions vs being general in nature (stating only balances, etc). Is there an accepted standard for this? In practice none of these organizations are big enough that they would ever have a formal audit but at the same time demanding that only an acknowlegment is possible seems overly technical.Regarding the typical monthly treasurer's report, RONR states that:'Such a report requires no action by the assembly.' (RONR 11th ed. p. 477 l. 10)Also:'No action of acceptance by the assembly is required -- or proper -- on a financial report of the treasurer unless it is of sufficient importance, as an annual report, to be referred to auditors. In the latter case it is the auditors' report which the assembly accepts.' (p. 479 ll. 5-9)Regarding your comment that the organizations in question aren't big enough to have a formal audit, I'll point out that an audit does not have to be conducted by paid financial professionals. Small organizations typically form an audit committee (of members willing and able to carry out this job on a volunteer basis). Just because an organization is small doesn't mean it should skip the audit process. See RONR (11th ed.) p. 479 ll. 13-21 for further information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted January 16, 2012 at 07:26 PM Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 at 07:26 PM Unless the Treasurer's Report contains recommendations, the Report is accepted/acknowledged.'No action of acceptance by the assembly is required -- or proper -- on a financial report of the treasurer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 16, 2012 at 10:45 PM Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 at 10:45 PM ... I'll point out that an audit does not have to be conducted by paid financial professionals. Small organizations typically form an audit committee (of members willing and able to carry out this job on a volunteer basis). Just because an organization is small doesn't mean it should skip the audit process. ...Sister organizations can be helpful: the treasurer (or finance committee, etc.) of the Boys & Girls Club of Shelbyville can audit the books of the B & G Club in Springfield, and vice versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted January 16, 2012 at 11:27 PM Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 at 11:27 PM Edgar: "Unless it is of sufficient importance" A recommendation found in the report could be called "sufficient importance" such as a recommendation that part of the surplus be invested in bonds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted January 17, 2012 at 05:42 AM Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 at 05:42 AM Is there an accepted standard for this? In practice none of these organizations are big enough that they would ever have a formal audit but at the same time demanding that only an acknowlegment is possible seems overly technical.In general, the report should be placed on file with no action by the assembly. The annual report (or other reports of sufficient importance) should be referred for audit and the report of the auditors is adopted by the assembly. If the organization's finances are such than a formal audit seems like overkill, the usual practice is to appoint an auditing committee composed of members of the assembly.Unless the Treasurer's Report contains recommendations, the Report is accepted/acknowledged... If the are recommendations, then the report should be approved either as a whole on each recommendation on its own.In the general case, the report should simply be placed on file. An unaudited treasurer's report should never be approved or accepted as a whole, even if it contains recommendations. To do so is to adopt every word of the report, which is highly dangerous in the case of an unaudited treasurer's report (RONR, 11th ed., pg. 508, lines 12-35; pg. 479, lines 5-9). If the report contains recommendations, the recommendations should be acted on separately (RONR, 11th ed., pg.Edgar: "Unless it is of sufficient importance" A recommendation found in the report could be called "sufficient importance" such as a recommendation that part of the surplus be invested in bonds.Well, the full statement is "unless it is of sufficient importance, as an annual report, to be referred to auditors." That citation has nothing to do with recommendations. Certainly, recommendations should be acted upon, but an unaudited treasurer's report should never be accepted or adopted as a whole. The assembly would be accepting the report as correct, which would be highly problematic if that turned out not to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted January 19, 2012 at 06:52 PM Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 at 06:52 PM Unless the Treasurer's Report contains recommendations, the Report is [not] accepted/acknowledged. For example, the Minutes would state: "The Treasurer presented his report which was filed." If the are recommendations, then the report should be approved either as a whole on each recommendation on its own.I think something fell down the "not" hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted January 21, 2012 at 03:59 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 at 03:59 PM I am a board member for a non-profit organization and I have seen the following scenario many times -the manager submits (and reads) the treasurer's report - someone then makes - and someone else seconds - a motion to accept the treasurer's report. The president then says, "are there any questions on the motion?" (This is done at every meeting!) Often, there are errors in the report and someone asks, "why does line .... say such and such - this can't be correct" and the manager (treasurer) might say, "I don't know, I'll have to correct this before our next meeting". Sometimes there are several errors of this nature pointed out. Then the president asks, "Are there any more questions on the motion before we vote?" So I ask, "How (and why?!) can we pass a motion to accept the treasurer's report after we've shown that it is not 100% accurate?" The president says, "There is a motion on the floor - it's been seconded - now we have to vote on it" This motion ALWAYS passes.Is there a way for me to put an end to this non-sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted January 21, 2012 at 04:28 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 at 04:28 PM move to amend the motion on the floor by inserting the word "not" between "to" and "accept"? ;-)or read the correct procedure from RONR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted January 21, 2012 at 04:42 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 at 04:42 PM I am a board member for a non-profit organization and I have seen the following scenario many times -the manager submits (and reads) the treasurer's report - someone then makes - and someone else seconds - a motion to accept the treasurer's report. The president then says, "are there any questions on the motion?" (This is done at every meeting!) Often, there are errors in the report and someone asks, "why does line .... say such and such - this can't be correct" and the manager (treasurer) might say, "I don't know, I'll have to correct this before our next meeting". Sometimes there are several errors of this nature pointed out. Then the president asks, "Are there any more questions on the motion before we vote?" So I ask, "How (and why?!) can we pass a motion to accept the treasurer's report after we've shown that it is not 100% accurate?" The president says, "There is a motion on the floor - it's been seconded - now we have to vote on it" This motion ALWAYS passes.Is there a way for me to put an end to this non-sense?Look at RONR (11th ed.), page 479, lines 5-12, and then show it to your president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Posted January 21, 2012 at 07:35 PM Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 at 07:35 PM Thank you so much for such a fast response!!!I already bought the "new" book since our bylaws say "the latest version of RONR" is our parliamentary authority but - starting from the beginning - I might not get to pg. 479 for many moons!Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted January 23, 2012 at 03:31 AM Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 at 03:31 AM It's plaintive cries like this one of Guest_Dave's that cause me nostalgically to wish for those halcyon days of RONR 10th Ed, 1st printing ... lo, those many moon weeks ago ... when the pages weren't so ornery attached to each other at one end, so we could easily hand p. 479 to Guest_Dave so he could read it now or tomorrow without having to slog through p. I - LII and then 1 - 478 before he could read about not adopting the treasurer's report and all that.So maybe Guest_Dave wants to write back and post his address so some of us with a spare page 479 can mail it to him.I sometimes like to post my address on the Internet so people will send me interesting pages of non-fiction books, but mostly I just get videotapes with Roman Numeral Thirty on them and not a lot of text. Politely I try to make do, but I'm really hoping for a good read about not approving a treasurer's report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carol Posted March 7, 2012 at 05:16 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 at 05:16 PM Could someone share what is in RONR (11th ed.), page 479, lines 5-12? Alas, I still have the 10th edition.Our Board approves the monthly financial statements. The motion to approve them is made and seconded, then (as guest-Dave noted above) changes are made. This results in a motion to amend the first motion, etc. which just seems like a waste of time and paper (I'm secretary). Is it possible to review the statements before any motion is made, suggest changes, and then make a motion to approve the statements as amended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted March 7, 2012 at 05:38 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 at 05:38 PM Could someone share what is in RONR (11th ed.), page 479, lines 5-12? Alas, I still have the 10th edition.Our Board approves the monthly financial statements. The motion to approve them is made and seconded, then (as guest-Dave noted above) changes are made. This results in a motion to amend the first motion, etc. which just seems like a waste of time and paper (I'm secretary). Is it possible to review the statements before any motion is made, suggest changes, and then make a motion to approve the statements as amended?See 10th ed. p. 461 ll.22-30. Looks the same. Maybe you can get the other board members to read (and believe) what it says there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted March 8, 2012 at 12:12 AM Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 at 12:12 AM Our Board approves the monthly financial statements. The motion to approve them is made and seconded, then (as guest-Dave noted above) changes are made. This results in a motion to amend the first motion, etc. which just seems like a waste of time and paper (I'm secretary). Is it possible to review the statements before any motion is made, suggest changes, and then make a motion to approve the statements as amended?The board shouldn't be approving the monthly financial statements at all.In general, the report should be placed on file with no action by the assembly. The annual report (or other reports of sufficient importance) should be referred for audit and the report of the auditors is adopted by the assembly. If the organization's finances are such than a formal audit seems like overkill, the usual practice is to appoint an auditing committee composed of members of the assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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