Guest Al G Posted May 29, 2012 at 02:27 PM Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 at 02:27 PM The Association has 643 members. There were 535 votes cast.How many votes were required to approve the improvements.?The Governing documents states "All other alterations and Improvement must first be approved by at least two-thirds (2/3) of all Owners represented in person or by proxy by their Voting Members at a meeting called and held in accordance with the Bylaws." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted May 29, 2012 at 02:36 PM Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 at 02:36 PM The Association has 643 members. There were 535 votes cast.How many votes were required to approve the improvements.?The Governing documents states "All other alterations and Improvement must first be approved by at least two-thirds (2/3) of all Owners represented in person or by proxy by their Voting Members at a meeting called and held in accordance with the Bylaws."This question is based on specific rules of your organization, and to render an answer would require reading the governing documents in their entirety, which is beyond the scope of this forum. You may want to consult a parliamentarian who can review the pertinent documents and provide an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted May 29, 2012 at 02:50 PM Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 at 02:50 PM Out of the 643 members, how many were actually in attendance at the meeting where those 535 votes were cast. (Don't tell me 535 unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE there were no abstentions, i.e. folks who could have voted but chose to sit on their hands, instead.)And what was the "Yes" / "No" tally of those votes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted May 29, 2012 at 03:03 PM Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 at 03:03 PM Out of the 643 members, how many were actually in attendance at the meeting where those 535 votes were cast. (Don't tell me 535 unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE there were no abstentions, i.e. folks who could have voted but chose to sit on their hands, instead.)And what was the "Yes" / "No" tally of those votes?There were 535 votes cast, no abstentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted May 29, 2012 at 03:06 PM Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 at 03:06 PM There were 535 votes cast, no abstentions.358 yes 177 no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted May 29, 2012 at 03:10 PM Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 at 03:10 PM Then the vote passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 29, 2012 at 03:34 PM Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 at 03:34 PM There were 535 votes cast, no abstentions.Just to be clear, there were exactly 535 members or represented by proxy, in the room when the vote was taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted May 29, 2012 at 05:03 PM Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 at 05:03 PM Just to be clear, there were exactly 535 members or represented by proxy, in the room when the vote was taken?YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted May 29, 2012 at 07:40 PM Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 at 07:40 PM The Association has 643 members. There were 535 votes cast.How many votes were required to approve the improvements.?The Governing documents states "All other alterations and Improvement must first be approved by at least two-thirds (2/3) of all Owners represented in person or by proxy by their Voting Members at a meeting called and held in accordance with the Bylaws."There were 535 votes cast, no abstentions.358 yes 177 noThen the vote passed.I don't think we here can say that it passed. What does "REPRESENTED" in the by;aws quote mean? Not for us to say. Can one make the argument that "owners represented in person or by proxy" means anyone who was there or had the opportunity to have a proxy, basically rendering it a 2/3 vote of the entire membership? Again, not our call.Al, 2/3 of the membership is 429. 2/3 of the votes cast is 357. Anything beyond that is up to your particular group to interpret or decide, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted May 30, 2012 at 03:16 PM Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 at 03:16 PM The Association has 643 members. There were 535 votes cast.How many votes were required to approve the improvements.?The Governing documents states "All other alterations and Improvement must first be approved by at least two-thirds (2/3) of all Owners represented in person or by proxy by their Voting Members at a meeting called and held in accordance with the Bylaws."The thing is, you are really asking for an interpretation of this phrase in your bylaws. I doubt that your problem is with doing the math.If your bylaws just said "two-thirds vote" that would have a clear meaning under RONR (two thirds of those members present and voting). "Two thirds of those present" would also be clear, as would "two thirds of the entire membership."What "at least two-thirds (2/3) of all Owners represented in person or by proxy by their Voting Members" means is not defined under RONR, and I think it is internally ambiguous on top of that. Does it mean two-thirds of all Owners (modified by the subsequent language to indicate how the owners may choose to participate in the meeting)? Or does it mean two-thirds of all Owners represented (in some manner at the meeting)?As Mr. Wynn pointed out in post #2, such interpretation is beyond the scope of this forum. RONR provides some useful principles of bylaws interpretation (pp. 588 - 591 in the 11th edition). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted May 30, 2012 at 04:08 PM Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 at 04:08 PM The Association has 643 members. There were 535 votes cast.How many votes were required to approve the improvements.?The Governing documents states "All other alterations and Improvement must first be approved by at least two-thirds (2/3) of all Owners represented in person or by proxy by their Voting Members at a meeting called and held in accordance with the Bylaws."Clearly your problem is not in the math (2x/3 = y; solve for y where x = 643, and x = 535) which I'm confident you could answer correctly for both variables. The problem is the logic portion of the question - does x in this case equal 643 or 535? When you (that is, the required number of members) determine that, amend the bylaws to avoid this in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted May 30, 2012 at 05:31 PM Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 at 05:31 PM I don't think we here can say that it passed. What does "REPRESENTED" in the by;aws quote mean? Not for us to say. Can one make the argument that "owners represented in person or by proxy" means anyone who was there or had the opportunity to have a proxy, basically rendering it a 2/3 vote of the entire membership? Again, not our call.Al, 2/3 of the membership is 429. 2/3 of the votes cast is 357. Anything beyond that is up to your particular group to interpret or decide, IMHO.Represented - that would imply that they were there in person (i.e. representing themselves) or represented trhough someone presdent at the meeting holding their proxy (i.e. a proxyholder.) At least that's how I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted May 30, 2012 at 07:47 PM Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 at 07:47 PM At least that's how I read it.Exactly. And not being a member of that group, your reading carries no weight, with all due respect. Others may read it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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