Guest Barbara Chicollo Posted August 17, 2012 at 03:32 AM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 03:32 AM Our treasurer was "appointed" (not elected) by the president to fill a vacant position. This treasurer has been acting inappropriately and verbally and physically attacked the president. Can he/she be removed from this office by a vote of the board of directors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted August 17, 2012 at 10:38 AM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 10:38 AM Our treasurer was "appointed" (not elected) by the president to fill a vacant position. This treasurer has been acting inappropriately and verbally and physically attacked the president. Can he/she be removed from this office by a vote of the board of directors?You should check your bylaws carefully to see what is said about this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted August 17, 2012 at 10:39 AM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 10:39 AM Why did you put "appointed" in quote-marks? Special meaning? (Too subtle for us literalists here.)Do the bylaws give the president the sole power to make (vacancy, I presume) appointments? If so, then it is up to him/her to fire your treasurer and find another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted August 17, 2012 at 10:49 AM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 10:49 AM Do the bylaws give the president the sole power to make (vacancy, I presume) appointments? If so, then it is up to him/her to fire your treasurer and find another.I'm afraid it's not that clear cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted August 17, 2012 at 11:30 AM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 11:30 AM Eh?To be sure, the board may have to jump through hoops to remove the treasurer (as in Chapter 20), but if the president does have vacancy appointment powers (from the bylaws) then it sure seems to me that he has appointmee removal powers, even though it is, fundamentally, an elective office. The current (apppointed) treasurer was not elected to that position so the "officer removal system" described in RONR would not appear to apply.Granted, RONR deals explicitly only with appointment & removal of committee members, not officer positions, but it seems a logical extension to allow the appointing power to remove his own appointees no matter where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted August 17, 2012 at 11:46 AM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 11:46 AM . . . it sure seems to me that he has appointee removal powers, even though it is, fundamentally, an elective office.I think the fly in the ointment of your position might be the term of office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted August 17, 2012 at 11:53 AM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 11:53 AM Oh, I don't know... Committee members have well defined terms too (p. 502-503) but that doesn't appear to hinder a presidential removal (given that the pres. legitimately HAS the appointment & removal power). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted August 17, 2012 at 12:58 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 12:58 PM Oh, I don't know... Committee members have well defined terms too (p. 502-503) but that doesn't appear to hinder a presidential removal (given that the pres. legitimately HAS the appointment & removal power).I'm not sure the "term of office" of a committee member (as referenced in the cited pages) is analogous to the term of office of an officer. I was thinking more along the lines of, say, a Presidential appointment to the Supreme Court. Or, perhaps more obliquely, the way we always say that an ex-officio member is as much a member as an elected member of a body. In other words, it doesn't matter how he got there. So, to get back to the case at hand, if the president appoints someone to serve the remainder of a vacated term, that officer is in there until the term ends, as much as if he had been elected to the office.But I'm sure Mr. Wynn will weigh back in since his fly in the appointment ointment may very well be different than mine.DRNA37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted August 17, 2012 at 01:26 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 01:26 PM Perhaps this is a point to be clarified in RONR/12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted August 17, 2012 at 01:53 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 01:53 PM Perhaps this is a point to be clarified in RONR/12?It already seems clear enough to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted August 17, 2012 at 04:14 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 04:14 PM Would you care to spread the light around? Tnx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted August 17, 2012 at 04:32 PM Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 at 04:32 PM I'm not sure the "term of office" of a committee member (as referenced in the cited pages) is analogous to the term of office of an officer. I was thinking more along the lines of, say, a Presidential appointment to the Supreme Court. Or, perhaps more obliquely, the way we always say that an ex-officio member is as much a member as an elected member of a body. In other words, it doesn't matter how he got there. So, to get back to the case at hand, if the president appoints someone to serve the remainder of a vacated term, that officer is in there until the term ends, as much as if he had been elected to the office.But I'm sure Mr. Wynn will weigh back in since his fly in the appointment ointment may very well be different than mine.DRNA37Same fly.Plus the vacancy-filling power comes from the bylaws, and the language of the provision certainly may contain unforeseen ramifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest William Posted August 18, 2012 at 12:40 PM Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 at 12:40 PM If this member was appointed by a past President with approval by the board, to serve the remainder of the term vacated, then that appointee is to serve until the end of the term vacated or until removed by the Officer Removal process stated in their bylaws.In an organization I have dealt with, the current presidentt does inherent the same removal powers as the original appointing president if related to a vacancy in a committee chair. He or she can act alone, but if related to an officer removal, only if the bylaws grant that power to act alone.This may be a case where the member was appointed to a vacancy in the Treasurer's position by a former president with the approval of the board and is to serve as Chair of the Finance Committee. IMO, the above staements still hold true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted August 18, 2012 at 04:41 PM Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 at 04:41 PM "The approval of the Board" is an additional factor in the mix. I was thinking of the president having the sole right to fill vacancies.But without Barbara C's bylaws at hand (and an explanation of why she put "appointed" in quotes), I don't think we can do anything more than speculate.Just as we (seemingly) have to (continue to) speculate as to what Dan the Oracle had in mind back at Post #10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMargaret Posted August 19, 2012 at 03:34 PM Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 at 03:34 PM No one has posted the FAQ yet!http://www.robertsru...com/faq.html#20Question:How can we get rid of officers we don't like before their term is up?Answer: It depends. (and then three paragraphs of clarification) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted August 30, 2012 at 02:43 AM Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 at 02:43 AM Just as we (seemingly) have to (continue to) speculate as to what Dan the Oracle had in mind back at Post #10.I presume he meant that it was clear that once a vacancy is filled (by whatever means) the person serves for the remainder of the unexpired term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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