How many votes do co-chairs get?

[Daisy Carrington]

We have a board position that is occupied by two co-chairs. How many votes does the position get? I understand Roberts Rules mandates each person gets a vote and this cannot be denied, but what happens in a co-chair situation when both people show up for the Board Meeting? 

[Hieu H. Huynh]

RONR says that "co-chairs" should be avoided. Your organization will have to decide the details if you do have co-chairs.

[Daisy Carrington]

I was able to find a previous discussion on this topic and I think I have the answer. One person, one vote. Each person gets a vote. I know RONR doesn't like co-chairs. 

[Richard Brown]

2 hours ago, Daisy Carrington said:

I was able to find a previous discussion on this topic and I think I have the answer. One person, one vote. Each person gets a vote. I know RONR doesn't like co-chairs. 

Well, each person doesn't  necessarily get one vote.  It isn't quite that simple.  If your bylaws call for two co-chairs, then they probably each technically get one vote.  But, if your bylaws call just for a chairman (singular), then in my opinion they do not each get a vote because that would be allowing two votes for one position.... one more vote than your bylaws authorize.

In addition, if one of them is presiding over a meeting of more than about a dozen members, the chair (or at least the one who is presiding) should not be voting at all except when the vote is by ballot or when his vote will affect the result.  If it is a board or committee of no more than about a dozen members, the chair can participate just like other members.

All in all, this business of co-chairs (or co-anythings) is exceedingly problematic and should be avoided in the eyes of RONR and just about all of us who are regular contributors to this forum.  The matter of whether, when and how they vote is something your organization will have to sort out for itself.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

14 hours ago, Daisy Carrington said:

We have a board position that is occupied by two co-chairs.

This is a customized rule.

Before I give my opinion, I'd like to read the exact wording.

I do not believe that your customized rule acknowledges the existence of "co-chairs".

So, the answers which could be given so far might well be moot.

So, my request is: Please post the wording of your rule. (And if you have it, please post the rule which authorizes co-chairs.)

[Daisy Carrington]

We have historically had co-chairs for several committees of the PTA. We've also asked that the position respectfully has one vote. I understand from reading and past discussions that the basis of RONR is respect for the person and their voice and thus one vote per person can't be denied. We will likely continue to ask for one vote for the position. I know most on this forum say we can't have co-chairs, but we do! It's like saying you can't have twins because we didn't see them on the ultrasound and we only have one crib! 

[Richard Brown]

Daisy, the answer to your questions depends at least in part on whether these co-chairs are both members of the committees in their own right or whether they are sharing "one committee spot".  If the committee rightfully has five members, and two of them are co-chairs, then it seems to me they both have a vote.  But if the committee is supposed to have five members, and the second co-chair brings that number up to six members, then you have a problem.  The committee is supposed to be comprised of five members, not  six, with a total of five votes, not six.   The same principle would apply, it seems to me, to a board or executive committee.  If the bylaws call for an executive committee of seven members, and your second co-chair brings that number up to eight, that is one more than is allowed.  If that's the case, and if they are both present, you are going to sort out for yourself which one gets to vote or how they split the vote or whatever.  All of this is very much contrary to the rules and spirit of RONR.

As Mr. Goldsworthy said,, we really can't offer you too much more help without reading for ourselves exactly what your bylaws say about this co-chair business.  If they are silent, then you are violating both your bylaws and RONR by having co-chairs in the first place and you will have to sort it out on your own.

We can't help you much when you are violating the rules and want to keep doing it that way. 

Edited to add:  Why don't you consider having a vice-chairman of each committee rather than two co-chairs?  It makes life much simpler!  Thcy can still essentially share responsibilities, take turns chairing the meetings, etc, but it is all a whole lot cleaner.  We have a member who has written an excellent article about the problems with co-chairs and co-anythings.  Hopefully he will see this thread and post it (or a link to it). 

Edited again to add:  Those of us who post on here regularly realize that some organizations are going  to do some things a certain way regardless of what RONR or their bylaws say.  We understand that, but point that you are on dangerous ground when you do it and that you are completely on your own as far as figuring out to deal with the problems it causes.  We simply can't help you when you won't follow the rules.  We are, after all,  all about "rules" and proper procedure.

 

[Kim Goldsworthy]

Quote

The anomalous title “co‑chairman” should be avoided, as it causes impossible dilemmas

in attempts to share the functions of a single position.
---
RONR (11th ed.), p. 176, ll. 3-6

 

On 8/19/2016 at 6:47 AM, Daisy Carrington said:

I understand Roberts Rules mandates each person gets a vote and this cannot be denied.

Q. But what happens in a co-chair situation when both people show up for the Board Meeting? 

"What happens"?

You get the impossible dilemma which page 176 describes.

***

You are asking what Robert's Rules says about co-chairs.

Now you know what Robert's Rules says about co-chairs.

You cannot have co-chairs and expect Robert's Rules to solve the very problem which RONR says cannot be solved.