Guest Duane Fischer Posted January 17, 2017 at 06:13 AM Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 at 06:13 AM Can a motion be voted on without a second? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted January 17, 2017 at 06:58 AM Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 at 06:58 AM Yes. Once a motion has been processed (i.e., moved, debated, amended, etc.), then once you get to the voting phase, the relevance of a second (or lack thereof) drops to absolute zero. The time to object to a lack of second is (a.) prior to the start of debate (if the motion is debatable), or (b.) prior to the first amendment (if the motion is amendable). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted January 17, 2017 at 06:59 AM Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 at 06:59 AM Yes. But there are a few caveats/exceptions. More information about the specific situation will be helpful. Seconds are not required in small boards and committees. Seconds are required in most regular assemblies, but once debate or voting starts, the lack of a second is waived and becomes immaterial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted January 17, 2017 at 09:49 AM Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 at 09:49 AM 2 hours ago, Richard Brown said: the lack of a second is waived and becomes immaterial I've often wondered, what's the difference between this and the simple application of the fundamental principle that (except for Page 251 and some of its friends) points of order must be timely? ___________ N. B. Just kidding about the "fundamental principle" wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted January 17, 2017 at 11:08 AM Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 at 11:08 AM 33 minutes ago, Gary c Tesser said: I've often wondered, what's the difference between this and the simple application of the fundamental principle that (except for Page 251 and some of its friends) points of order must be timely? ___________ N. B. Just kidding about the "fundamental principle" wording. Well, you must have noticed that the chair's stating the question on a motion that has not been seconded is used on page 250 (and there you are all the way up to page 251) as a shining example of an instance in which a point of order must be raised promptly at the time the breach occurs. And don't think you're kidding us into thinking that you don't already know that all points of order must be timely, even in instances where the breach is one of those mentioned on page 251. We're on to you and your little tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 17, 2017 at 08:08 PM Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 at 08:08 PM 8 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: And don't think you're kidding us into thinking that you don't already know that all points of order must be timely, even in instances where the breach is one of those mentioned on page 251. We're on to you and your little tricks. This is going to send him and Fluffy into a tizzy. Expect a 3:30 AM response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted January 18, 2017 at 01:32 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 at 01:32 AM 14 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: the chair's stating the question on a motion that has not been seconded is used on page 250 (and there you are all the way up to page 251) [is] a shining example of an instance in which a point of order must be raised promptly at the time the breach occurs. So is it that the untimeliness -- the PoO's not being raised promptly in most instances, like this one, in which it needs to be -- waives it, so that the breach becomes immaterial? (George you perv leave my girlfriend out of it, and none of your business what we're doing at 3:30 AM!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted January 18, 2017 at 02:38 PM Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 at 02:38 PM 12 hours ago, Gary c Tesser said: So is it that the untimeliness -- the PoO's not being raised promptly in most instances, like this one, in which it needs to be -- waives it, so that the breach becomes immaterial? Yeah, " becomes immaterial" is a good way to put it. "After debate has begun or, if there is no debate, after any member has voted, the lack of a second has become immaterial and it is too late to make a point of order that the motion has not been seconded." (RONR, 11th ed., p. 37, ll. 9-12): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted January 18, 2017 at 08:59 PM Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 at 08:59 PM Ouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted January 19, 2017 at 09:16 AM Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 at 09:16 AM OK ... I'm gonna keep dragging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted January 19, 2017 at 07:35 PM Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 at 07:35 PM So ... is there any reason that the the admirable, exemplary, dare we say 'iconic', wording "becomes immaterial" does not appear there on p. 250 -- or, for that matter, in Section 23, at all (besides maintaining Robert's Rules's legendary reputation for its traditionally laconic style)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted January 19, 2017 at 07:42 PM Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 at 07:42 PM 6 minutes ago, Gary c Tesser said: So ... is there any reason that the the admirable, exemplary, dare we say 'iconic', wording "becomes immaterial" does not appear there on p. 250 -- or, for that matter, in Section 23, at all (besides maintaining Robert's Rules's legendary reputation for its traditionally laconic style)? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted January 20, 2017 at 02:20 AM Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 at 02:20 AM But it is in fact fundamentally implicit, even intrinsic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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