Membership roll call

[Guest Todd]

If you don't do a membership role call of some kind and non members are at the meeting how do you decide if the 25% quorum has been met and if the vote requires 75% to pass? Is a role call of members required?

[Richard Brown]

A roll call of members is not required by RONR, but as a practical matter, you will have to somehow identify who the voting members are. Sometimes this is done simply by segregating the seating areas with the guests being seated separately from the members. Your organization can determine how to accomplish this, just as with ascertaining whether a quorum is present.

As to the 75% vote requirement, exactly what do the bylaws say about that requirement? Is it 75% of the vote? 75% of the members present? 75% of the total membership? Unless your bylaws specify otherwise, it would be based only on the members voting.

[Guest Todd]

Thanks, the way our bylaws read we would need a 3/4 vote but they normally don't have a member count at the meeting and I question how they know what a 3/4 vote of members present is if you don't have a starting point.

[Joshua Katz]

4 minutes ago, Guest Todd said:

Thanks, the way our bylaws read we would need a 3/4 vote but they normally don't have a member count at the meeting and I question how they know what a 3/4 vote of members present is if you don't have a starting point.

A 3/4 vote of what?

[Guest Todd]

Our bylaws require a 3/4 vote to hire for a new position at our church

[Benjamin Geiger]

I think the question is whether the 3/4 requirement is 3/4 of those present and voting, or 3/4 of the entire membership. The former can be done with a division of the assembly (if it's not obvious from the voice vote). The latter requires a counted vote of some sort, along with knowledge of the number of members, but not necessarily a roll call.

[Guest Todd]

of members present at the meeting

[Richard Brown]

42 minutes ago, Guest Todd said:

of members present at the meeting

Todd, please quote EXACTLY, verbatim, what your bylaws say about that vote requirement. Don't paraphrase, quote exactly.

[Guest Todd]

Candidates for associate pastors, ministerial staff and other professional paid staff members shall be recommended to the church body by the Elder Board. The recommendation will be confirmed by a 3/4 vote of the church members at a constitutionally called business meeting. Candidates will be recommended by the senior pastor to the Elder Board. Any members of the church body may make a recommendation of a potential candidate.

[Joshua Katz]

While only your organization can interpret your bylaws, I would personally interpret that as a 3/4 vote of those present and voting - i.e. "3/4 vote" tells us the threshold, and "of the church members" tells us who may vote.  But I recognize the ambiguity.

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Guest Todd said:

Candidates for associate pastors, ministerial staff and other professional paid staff members shall be recommended to the church body by the Elder Board. The recommendation will be confirmed by a 3/4 vote of the church members at a constitutionally called business meeting. Candidates will be recommended by the senior pastor to the Elder Board. Any members of the church body may make a recommendation of a potential candidate.

 

1 hour ago, Joshua Katz said:

While only your organization can interpret your bylaws, I would personally interpret that as a 3/4 vote of those present and voting - i.e. "3/4 vote" tells us the threshold, and "of the church members" tells us who may vote.  But I recognize the ambiguity.

In my opinion, the provision is ambiguous and it is up to the society itself to interpret the meaning of that provision.

My initial impression, after first reading the provision, was that guest Todd is correct and the requirement is for a vote of 3/4 of the members present. However, upon further reflection, I think my judgment was too hasty and I tend to agree with Mr. Katz.

The default definition in RONR is that a 3/4 vote of the members means 3/4 of those present and voting. In order to require that the vote be a vote of three-fourths of the members present, the bylaws must be clear and unambiguous. The provision should read "by a vote of three-fourths of the members present" if that is what is intended. Saying "by a three-fourths vote of the members present" is not the same thing and creates the ambiguity.

I am on my cell phone now, but as soon as I get on a computer I will post a link or the actual verbage from RONR regarding vote thresholds. That is, unless someone else posts it first. The difference in terminology is very subtle, but it is very important and has important ramifications.

Edited February 3, 2018 at 10:59 PM by Richard Brown

[Guest Todd]

Thanks, And I agree the way it is written doesn't portray what is meant and needs to be addressed as well I really appreciate the feed back

[Richard Brown]

Todd, see Pages 400 - 404 of the 11th edition of RONR for more information on voting and voting thresholds, etc.

[Guest Todd]

Thanks