Voting on a tie when president is running for election

[Guest Julie]

I have a question about Robert's rules when it comes to voting. 

We had an election where three people were up for the position of president (including the sitting president). Everyone got to vote besides the three people running for the office. The ballot vote ended in a tie between two of the three members. How should the election proceed? Should the third person who was up for the position  that was not part of the tie cast their own vote in a re-vote? The sitting president said that she should be the one to cast the deciding vote, even though she was up for re election. Our constitution states that the president should cast the vote, but it fails to state what happens when the president is seeking the office they are tie-breaking for. 

[Richard Brown]

Two questions, guest Julie. First, was the election conducted by ballot? Second, exactly what do your bylaws say about the president voting? Please quote exactly, don't paraphrase.

Edited to add: in an election, all members, including the candidates, should be entitled to vote unless you have a bylaw provision which prohibits it.

Edited February 15, 2018 at 05:50 AM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Gary Novosielski]

2 hours ago, Guest Julie said:

We had an election where three people were up for the position of president (including the sitting president). Everyone got to vote besides the three people running for the office. The ballot vote ended in a tie between two of the three members. How should the election proceed? Should the third person who was up for the position  that was not part of the tie cast their own vote in a re-vote? The sitting president said that she should be the one to cast the deciding vote, even though she was up for re election. Our constitution states that the president should cast the vote, but it fails to state what happens when the president is seeking the office they are tie-breaking for. 

You may not deprive those people running of their right to vote.  On a ballot vote, the presiding officer votes along with everyone else, and does not have any role in "breaking" or creating a tie. 

In an election, the winner must have a majority (more than half) of the votes cast.  Not merely the most votes, but more than all the other candidates put together. So a tie vote can never be a majority, and even having the most votes might not be a majority if there are more than two candidates. 

The  answer in all cases is the same: if nobody is elected, vote again.  All members may vote, nobody gets dropped from the ballot unless they ask to be.  You have a second ballot, third ballot, twenty-first ballot, whatever it takes until one candidate gets a majority. A full report is given after every ballot so all members know what the vote counts were for each candidate.  Nominations may be reopened if need be, and of course write-in votes are also allowed.

So says RONR.  But see disclaimer below.

[Benjamin Geiger]

The way I interpreted OP's question is this:

Alice (the current president), Bob, and Cindy are running for the office of president. A vote is taken by ballot, with all members (including Alice, Bob, and Cindy) voting. Alice and Bob earn 7 votes each and Cindy earns 5. Alice claims to have the authority to cast an additional vote, presumably for herself, to break the tie.

As so often occurs, it comes down to what the bylaws say. RONR's procedure is clear (to me at least), but the bylaws could easily have overridden it, and if "Our constitution states that the president should cast the vote" is taken at face value, that's precisely what happened.

Guest Julie, what do your constitution and bylaws say on the matter? Please quote them verbatim, don't paraphrase.

Edited February 15, 2018 at 07:25 AM by Benjamin Geiger
Clarify the assumed scenario.

[Gary Novosielski]

Even if Alice is allowed to vote for  herself, the vote would then be:

• Votes cast:  20
• Needed to elect: 11
• Alice:  8
• Bob:  7
• Cindy:  5

Result:  NO Election; additional ballot required.

Ties never need to be "broken".   TIes are less than a majority, and are treated like any other result that fails to reach a majority.  In the case of an election, a second or subsequent ballot is held.  In the case of an ordinary motion, the motion fails.

[Richard Brown]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Geiger said:

The way I interpreted OP's question is this:

Alice (the current president), Bob, and Cindy are running for the office of president. A vote is taken by ballot, with all members (including Alice, Bob, and Cindy) voting. Alice and Bob earn 7 votes each and Cindy earns 5. Alice claims to have the authority to cast an additional vote, presumably for herself, to break the tie.

That's not the way I interpret what happened. I interpret guest Julie's comment as indicating none of the three candidates voted, but the current president claims to have the right to vote to break a tie. However, as Mr Novosielski pointed out, in the case of a ballot vote, the president votes along with everyone else. Every member, including the candidates, has a right to vote in an election unless the bylaws specifically provide otherwise.

Edited to add:  Guest Julie, please clarify exactly what happened and weather the three candidates voted in the initial ballot.

Edited February 15, 2018 at 03:25 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph