Circumventing the agenda

[Guest GSS]

Our organization's meetings are agenda based. Last meeting, 2 motions were made and passed that were not part of the agenda with no one rising to a point of order. Neither (obviously) did the chair declare the motions illegal. Now members want to put them on an agenda to 'officially' vote on the issues. My question(s)- once we went off-agenda and took action, are these motions binding, and is it necessary to revisit them at the next meeting?

[Hieu H. Huynh]

New business could be brought up and action taken without it being on the agenda.

[jstackpo]

But even if your rules really required all potential business to be on the agenda, those "rogue" motions have been properly adopted, since there was no timely point of order.

Don't like what they say?  Next meeting, move to rescind them  --  but be sure to put the motion to rescind on the agenda, too!

[Dan Honemann]

27 minutes ago, Guest GSS said:

Our organization's meetings are agenda based. Last meeting, 2 motions were made and passed that were not part of the agenda with no one rising to a point of order. Neither (obviously) did the chair declare the motions illegal. Now members want to put them on an agenda to 'officially' vote on the issues. My question(s)- once we went off-agenda and took action, are these motions binding, and is it necessary to revisit them at the next meeting?

Yes, the motions are binding unless null and void for some other reason, and no, it is not necessary to revisit them at the next meeting. In fact, a motion to affirm or reaffirm the motions which were adopted would be out of order. 

[Dan Honemann]

To be entirely sure, however, it might be helpful if you would explain what you mean by "agenda based".

[Guest GSS]

Aganda based- as in the agenda (with all reports and motions to be made (these motions come from an executive committee)) is printed and distributed ahead of the meeting and then the first thing to occur once the meeting is called to order is a motion to adopt the agenda.

[Dan Honemann]

1 hour ago, Guest GSS said:

Aganda based- as in the agenda (with all reports and motions to be made (these motions come from an executive committee)) is printed and distributed ahead of the meeting and then the first thing to occur once the meeting is called to order is a motion to adopt the agenda.

Well, then, I'm quite sure that my previous response was correct.  

[Josh Martin]

1 hour ago, Guest GSS said:

Aganda based- as in the agenda (with all reports and motions to be made (these motions come from an executive committee)) is printed and distributed ahead of the meeting and then the first thing to occur once the meeting is called to order is a motion to adopt the agenda.

Has the organization adopted a rule which actually requires that all motions must be printed and distributed ahead of the meeting, or is it simply customary to do so?

[Guest GSS]

Some say adopted a rule, but I can find no evidence. So seemingly customary. What would be the implications of each?

[jstackpo]

Does your adopted agenda usually include a section called "New Business"?  See page 26.

And another question involving the precise meaning of the words you use:  Is your "adopted agenda" any more than a listing, with text, I suppose, of motions that are going to be considered in the meeting,

OR...

is it a complete "order of business", as on page 26, with the specific business items listed under the appropriate headings?

[Rev Ed]

I am a Secretary of an organization where I collect a list of items that the members wish to have discussed/dealt with at a meeting.  I then create an Agenda with those issues included.  However, there is always an item listed as "New Business" just in case something last minute comes up.  So, it is possible for what occurred here to happen under New Business.

[Guest GSS]

18 minutes ago, jstackpo said:

Does your adopted agenda usually include a section called "New Business"?  See page 26.

And another question involving the precise meaning of the words you use:  Is your "adopted agenda" any more than a listing, with text, I suppose, of motions that are going to be considered in the meeting,

OR...

is it a complete "order of business", as on page 26, with the specific business items listed under the appropriate headings?

More a complete 'order of business'.

[Dan Honemann]

As I understand it, the first item of business at any regular meeting is approval of the agenda. If, under this organization's rules, the agenda distributed ahead of the meeting can be amended during the approval process by adding items to it as well as subtracting items from it, then it seems clear to me that the two motions which were adopted at the last meeting are binding (unless null and void for some other reason).

The only thing which would cause me to change my mind in this regard would be the existence of a written rule previously adopted by this organization which actually requires that all motions to be considered at a meeting must be printed and distributed ahead of the meeting (the sort of rule Mr. Martin was inquiring about). Apparently there isn't any such rule.

Edited March 4, 2018 at 08:36 PM by Daniel H. Honemann
Added the last paragraph.

[Guest GSS]

53 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

As I understand it, the first item of business at any regular meeting is approval of the agenda. If, under this organization's rules, the agenda distributed ahead of the meeting can be amended during the approval process by adding items to it as well as subtracting items from it, then it seems clear to me that the two motions which were adopted at the last meeting are binding (unless null and void for some other reason).

The only thing which would cause me to change my mind in this regard would be the existence of a written rule previously adopted by this organization which actually requires that all motions to be considered at a meeting must be printed and distributed ahead of the meeting (the sort of rule Mr. Martin was inquiring about). Apparently there isn't any such rule.

If there is a written rule that requires all motions to be considered be printed ahead of time, and motions are made and acted on outside that printed agenda with no place for that to occur- specifically all items on agenda had been dealt with and adjournment was in order. At that point, 2 motions, in turn, were allowed to be brought to floor, seconded, discussed, voted on, and the results recognized and entered into the minutes- are these then 'legal and binding' per Roberts Rules or are they actually void?

Also, thanks for all who are weighing in.

[Dan Honemann]

2 minutes ago, Guest GSS said:

If there is a written rule that requires all motions to be considered be printed ahead of time, and motions are made and acted on outside that printed agenda with no place for that to occur- specifically all items on agenda had been dealt with and adjournment was in order. At that point, 2 motions, in turn, were allowed to be brought to floor, seconded, discussed, voted on, and the results recognized and entered into the minutes- are these then 'legal and binding' per Roberts Rules or are they actually void?

Also, thanks for all who are weighing in.

In such a case, action has been taken in violation of a rule protecting absentees (assuming there were any). This gives rise to a continuing breach (see (e) on page 251).