What to do when a president is out of control at a meeting ?

[Guest Stephanie Gonos]

We have a social club which is very informal, by laws are minimal and they defer to Robert's Rules of Order.

There will be a highly contested issue coming up where the President could most likely get out of control as

it is a topic very intimate with her.  We all encourage her to remain calm and unbiased  but as First Vice president

I am wondering what I can do if during the discussion she gets hostile (yells, shouts, threatens to quit - fire others  ..etc) . Can I over ride her to calm

things down somehow ?

[George Mervosh]

The assembly can decide to remove her from her duty to preside for this meeting if a problem evolves during the meeting.

See this http://www.robertsrules.com/interp_list.html#2006_2  paying particular attention to the second paragraph of the answer and what follows.

Edited July 18, 2018 at 03:35 PM by George Mervosh

[Richard Brown]

I agree with the response by Mr. Mervosh and would add that the president should relinquish the chair to you as VP if she intends to speak in any way on the motion.  RONR requires that the president remain impartial and not participate in debate.  See the following language from  pages 394-395 of RONR:

"Rule Against the Chair's Participation in Debate
If the presiding officer is a member of the society, he has—as an individual—the same rights in debate as any other member; but the impartiality required of the chair in an assembly precludes his exercising these rights while he is presiding. Normally, especially in a large body, he should have nothing to say on the merits of pending questions. On certain occasions—which should be extremely rare—the presiding officer may believe that a crucial factor relating to such a question has been overlooked and that his obligation as a member to call attention to the point outweighs his duty to preside at [page 395] that time. To participate in debate, he must relinquish the chair; and in such a case he should turn the chair over:
    a)    to the highest-ranking vice-president present who has not spoken on the question and does not decline on the grounds of wishing to speak on it; or
    b)    if no such vice-president is in the room, to some other member qualified as in (a), whom the chair designates (and who is assumed to receive the assembly's approval by unanimous consent unless member(s) then nominate other person(s), in which case the presiding officer's choice is also treated as a nominee and the matter is decided by vote).
The presiding officer who relinquished the chair then should not return to it until the pending main question has been disposed of, since he has shown himself to be a partisan as far as that particular matter is concerned. Indeed, unless a presiding officer is extremely sparing in leaving the chair to take part in debate, he may destroy members' confidence in the impartiality of his approach to the task of presiding."   (Emphasis added)

Edited July 18, 2018 at 04:38 PM by Richard Brown
Typographical corrections

[Josh Martin]

1 hour ago, Guest Stephanie Gonos said:

I am wondering what I can do if during the discussion she gets hostile (yells, shouts, threatens to quit - fire others  ..etc) . Can I over ride her to calm

things down somehow ?

I concur with the above and would note that a review of the rules of decorum and their proper enforcement may also be necessary, if the President is in fact removed from the chair and those duties then fall to you. See RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 391-394, 645-649.

[Guest Stephanie Gonos]

The President is going to bring this up in front of the club (though we've begged her not to).  She is going to make a statement

that she is removing the treasurer (who has no clue about what will happen) from the position.  It's an appointed position and within the right

of the President to do so.  There were some improprieties on the treasurers part.  My concern being First Vice President (highest position next to President)

is that in so doing there might be some emotions coming into play.. accusations .. arguments etc .... This is why I wanted to know the procedure to "over ride" the President's authority and restore calm.   I don't want to over rule her termination decision  I just think the President will get into a battle of words with the Treasurer and things will go bad.  It's a behavior problem of the President that I am worried about.   Thank you.

[Josh Martin]

10 minutes ago, Guest Stephanie Gonos said:

The President is going to bring this up in front of the club (though we've begged her not to).  She is going to make a statement

that she is removing the treasurer (who has no clue about what will happen) from the position.  It's an appointed position and within the right

of the President to do so.  There were some improprieties on the treasurers part.  My concern being First Vice President (highest position next to President)

is that in so doing there might be some emotions coming into play.. accusations .. arguments etc .... This is why I wanted to know the procedure to "over ride" the President's authority and restore calm.   I don't want to over rule her termination decision  I just think the President will get into a battle of words with the Treasurer and things will go bad.  It's a behavior problem of the President that I am worried about.   Thank you.

Thank you. Based on these additional facts, I would also note the following rules:

”A member or officer has the right that allegations against his good name shall not be made except by charges brought on reasonable ground.” (RONR, 11th ed., pg. 656)

”For the protection of parties who may be innocent, the first resolution should avoid details as much as possible. An individual member may not prefer charges, even if that member has proof of an officer's or member's wrongdoing. If a member introduces a resolution preferring charges unsupported by an investigating committee's recommendation, the chair must rule the resolution out of order, informing the member that it would instead be in order to move the appointment of such a committee (by a resolution, as in the example above). A resolution is improper if it implies the truth of specific rumors or contains insinuations unfavorable to an officer or member, even one who is to be accused. It is out of order, for example, for a resolution to begin, "Whereas, It seems probable that the treasurer has engaged in graft, . . ." At the first mention of the word "graft" in such a case, the chair must instantly call to order the member attempting to move the resolution.” (RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 657-658)

While the President apparently has the authority to remove the Treasurer under your rules, in my opinion, the protections against making allegations against the Treasurer still apply. So the President should be very careful in making a statement regarding why the Treasurer was removed.

Edited July 18, 2018 at 06:22 PM by Josh Martin

[Guest Who's Coming to Dinner]

5 hours ago, Guest Stephanie Gonos said:

My concern being First Vice President (highest position next to President) is that in so doing there might be some emotions coming into play.. accusations .. arguments etc .... 

Any member has the right to call an indecorous member to order. Rise and say, "Madame President, I call the member to order" or "Madame President, I call the chair to order." This may be awkward to do in a "very informal" setting, which is the peril of conducting casual meetings.

[Josh Martin]

9 minutes ago, Guest Who's Coming to Dinner said:

Any member has the right to call an indecorous member to order. Rise and say, "Madame President, I call the member to order" or "Madame President, I call the chair to order." This may be awkward to do in a "very informal" setting, which is the peril of conducting casual meetings.

Well yes, but if the indecorous member is the President herself, it seems prudent to remove the President from the chair, as the President will be unlikely to rule herself out of order. Since the OP (as the First Vice President) will then be in the chair, she may herself call the President to order, without waiting for another member to raise the issue.

Edited July 18, 2018 at 11:33 PM by Josh Martin