Guest Kathryn Tanner Posted October 3, 2018 at 08:08 PM Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 at 08:08 PM A member of our women's church group has twice refused to approve minutes that are by now 6 months old (we don't meet in the summer), saying that she won't do so until the minutes are "complete and correct." Her objection is that something in the Chairman's opening remarks is missing, but she has so far not offered a correction. Another member also made a "point of order" at the same disputed-minutes meeting, but her point of order objection was to a meeting a month previous. She wants her month-old objection attached as an "addendum" to the minutes. Neither member will approve the minutes until they are "complete and correct" but it's quite evident the minutes will NEVER meet their standards of "complete and correct." What shall be done? There have been two bitter meetings about this, and an exchange of bitter emails. How can this issue be set to rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted October 3, 2018 at 08:15 PM Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 at 08:15 PM 1. Unless you have a very small group, one member cannot "refuse" to take action. In any case, the procedure for approving minutes is as follows: the chair asks for corrections, and if there are none, declares the minutes approved. So she can either offer a correction, or not. If she doesn't (and no one else does), they are approved. If she does, the group can vote on it (or adopt the correction by unanimous consent) and then the minutes are approved. Why, exactly, has the group allowed one member to hold the minutes hostage? 2. You should not wait 6 months to approve minutes. Instead, the body can appoint someone, such as the board or a minutes approval committee, to do so. 3. As for the month-old point of order, it should either be found well-taken or (more likely, depending on what the point of order is) or not well-taken, and included in the minutes of the meeting where it is raised. It has nothing at all to do with the minutes of any prior meeting, and should not be attached to them as an addendum or otherwise. Regardless, though, she can offer them as an addendum, or correction, or whatever, and the assembly can vote no. Then everyone can move on with their lives. It's possible I've missed something, though. If so, please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted October 3, 2018 at 08:19 PM Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 at 08:19 PM The bottom line is the assembly does not need to actually vote on approving the minutes. They are approved automatically if no Corrections are adopted. It requires a majority vote or unanimous consent to adopt a correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted October 3, 2018 at 08:37 PM Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 at 08:37 PM Agreeing with Mr. Brown, even if the assembly did vote on approving the minutes, it wouldn't require a unanimous vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted October 3, 2018 at 08:39 PM Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 at 08:39 PM And furthermore, neither the president's "opening remarks", nor anybody else's remarks for that matter, belong in the minutes at all. All that belongs in is what was done (motions adopted, defeated or otherwise disposed of) and a few semi-administrative matters. See page 468ff for details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted October 4, 2018 at 07:58 AM Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 at 07:58 AM (edited) Guess Kathryn, one potential solution is to in this case actually have someone move a motion to approve the minutes. As the others have said, it is not required to have a motion but it is not improper. This motion should be properly moved, seconded, and stated by the chair. It requires a majority vote. I do not know why your group presumes that unanimous consent is required to approve one person can block the approval of the minutes. Edited October 4, 2018 at 07:53 PM by Atul Kapur See Gary N's post below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted October 4, 2018 at 08:13 AM Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 at 08:13 AM 11 hours ago, Guest Kathryn Tanner said: A member of our women's church group has twice refused to approve minutes that are by now 6 months old (we don't meet in the summer), saying that she won't do so until the minutes are "complete and correct." Her objection is that something in the Chairman's opening remarks is missing, but she has so far not offered a correction. Another member also made a "point of order" at the same disputed-minutes meeting, but her point of order objection was to a meeting a month previous. She wants her month-old objection attached as an "addendum" to the minutes. Neither member will approve the minutes until they are "complete and correct" but it's quite evident the minutes will NEVER meet their standards of "complete and correct." What shall be done? There have been two bitter meetings about this, and an exchange of bitter emails. How can this issue be set to rest? The problem can be completely eliminated if the proper procedure for the approval of minutes is followed.: Quote A formal motion to approve the minutes is not necessary, although such a motion is not out of order. After the minutes have been read (or after their reading has been omitted by unanimous consent....), and whether or not a motion for approval has been offered, the chair asks, “Are there any corrections to the minutes?” and pauses. Corrections, when proposed, are usually handled by unanimous consent (pp. 54–56), but if any member objects to a proposed correction—which is, in effect, a subsidiary motion to Amend—the usual rules governing consideration of amendments to a main motion are applicable (see 12). After any proposed corrections have been disposed of, and when there is no response to the chair’s inquiry, “Are there any corrections [or “further corrections”] to the minutes?” the chair says, “There being no corrections [or “no further corrections”] to the minutes, the minutes stand [or “are”] approved [or “approved as read,” or “approved as corrected”].” The minutes are thus approved without any formal vote, even if a motion for their approval has been made. The only proper way to object to the approval of the secretary’s draft of the minutes is to offer a correction to it. [emphasis added] Note that the "usual rules" on amendments referred to above (see RONR §12), say that a majority vote decides what goes in and what doesn't. So while a single member may object to a correction that is offered, that just means the correction is voted on. No single member may block a correction if a majority approve of it. And since there is no final vote, minutes can't be rejected completely. Once there are no [further] corrections offered, the minutes are then presumed to then be correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted October 4, 2018 at 08:19 AM Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 at 08:19 AM 17 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said: Guess Kathryn, one potential solution is to in this case actually have someone move a motion to approve the minutes. As the others have said, it is not required to have a motion but it is not improper. This motion should be properly moved, seconded, and stated by the chair. It requires a majority vote. I do not know why your group presumes that unanimous consent is required to approve the minutes. RONR says that even when such a motion is made, a final vote is not held. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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