chuck akers Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:53 PM Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 at 11:53 PM Calling all Robert's Rules wizards! I am a board member of an association that uses Robert's Rules and there is a debate over how to handle a specific election situation. During the election for our next board of directors, a candidate dropped out of the race leaving one other candidate in the race for the seat. Some say the remaining candidate should win the election as the only eligible candidate to remain through the close of the election. Others say a special election is necessary. Does Robert's Rules have guidance for this? Thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted November 10, 2018 at 01:01 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 at 01:01 AM (edited) 1 hour ago, chuck akers said: Does Robert's Rules have guidance for this? There is no requirement in RONR that there be more than one candidate for an office. In fact, there is no requirement that there be a candidate at all. RONR provides that unless the bylaws prohibit write-in votes, persons may be elected to office by write-in votes without having been nominated or actually "running" for the office. The norm is for a nominating committee to nominate one person for each office, although nominating more than one person is permitted. And, of course, nominations must be permitted from the floor unless prohibited by your bylaws. Edited to add: if your bylaws require a vote by ballot, a ballot vote must be taken and cannot be waived or suspended even if there is only one candidate. Edited November 10, 2018 at 01:06 AM by Richard Brown Added last paragraph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted November 10, 2018 at 01:19 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 at 01:19 AM 1 hour ago, chuck akers said: Calling all Robert's Rules wizards! I am a board member of an association that uses Robert's Rules and there is a debate over how to handle a specific election situation. During the election for our next board of directors, a candidate dropped out of the race leaving one other candidate in the race for the seat. Some say the remaining candidate should win the election as the only eligible candidate to remain through the close of the election. Others say a special election is necessary. Does Robert's Rules have guidance for this? Thanks for the help! What do your bylaws say about the election of officers? Do they say elections take place by ballot vote? Is there any exception for cases where a single candidate runs unopposed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck akers Posted November 10, 2018 at 01:41 AM Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 at 01:41 AM 19 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said: What do your bylaws say about the election of officers? Do they say elections take place by ballot vote? Is there any exception for cases where a single candidate runs unopposed? All officer elections (and board member elections) are by secret ballot regardless of how many candidates there are. What does that have to do with a candidate for a board seat dropping out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Who's Coming to Dinner Posted November 10, 2018 at 01:44 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 at 01:44 AM What it means is that you cannot declare the lone nominee elected by acclamation because a ballot vote is required and members may write in someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck akers Posted November 10, 2018 at 02:10 AM Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 at 02:10 AM 20 minutes ago, Guest Who's Coming to Dinner said: What it means is that you cannot declare the lone nominee elected by acclamation because a ballot vote is required and members may write in someone else. Our elections (for all positions) are by ballot and write-ins are included. In this case, there was no threat from write-ins. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted November 10, 2018 at 02:20 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 at 02:20 AM The elections would have to be conducted by ballot in accordance with your rules. If your association wants to do something else, the bylaws would have to be amended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted November 10, 2018 at 02:21 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 at 02:21 AM 1 minute ago, chuck akers said: Our elections (for all positions) are by ballot and write-ins are included. In this case, there was no threat from write-ins. Thoughts? I don't know what you mean by this. When the bylaws require a vote by ballot, a ballot vote must be taken regardless of whether there is only one candidate. It is improper to try to make a ballot vote unanimous and a ballot vote must be taken even if there is only one candidate. It is a simple rule. Is there something difficult to understand about it? Also, there is no requirement in Robert's Rules and no requirement I'm aware of in your bylaws that requires that there be more than one candidate for an office. If two candidates were nominated, or announced that they were running, and then one of them dropped out, you are left with one candidate who still must be voted on with a ballot vote. And additional nominations must be permitted from the floor prior to the election unless prohibited by your bylaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted November 10, 2018 at 02:44 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 at 02:44 AM 51 minutes ago, chuck akers said: All officer elections (and board member elections) are by secret ballot regardless of how many candidates there are. What does that have to do with a candidate for a board seat dropping out? It has everything to do with it. It means that even if a candidate drops out, the ballot vote must still be held. A lone nominee may not simply be declared the winner. Members may vote on the secret ballot for the lone nominee, or they may write in the name of other qualified persons. The lone nominee is elected only if he receives a vote on a majority of all ballots cast. This rule may not be suspended even by a unanimous vote. No "special" election is normally required. The regular election is all that's needed. If some seats remain unfilled because there are not enough candidates who achieve a majority, subsequent ballots are held until until all seats are filled, at which time the election is complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted November 10, 2018 at 04:10 AM Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 at 04:10 AM As I read Chuch Ayers' responses, it seems that there is some information missing that would explain the confusion I sense. I wonder if the ballots are actually mail (or email) ballots and that balloting is over an extended period of time (suggested by his phrase " the only eligible candidate to remain through the close of the election "). In any case, a candidate "dropping out" does not affect the results of the election nor its validity. If the candidate who stayed as a candidate won the election, then that person won the election. No need for a special election. The other possibility that comes to mind is that the candidate who dropped out actually won the election. At that point, the candidate could decline the office and further ballots would be held. Again, no need for a special election. (didn't we have a recent topic about this?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck akers Posted November 11, 2018 at 06:34 PM Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2018 at 06:34 PM On 11/9/2018 at 10:10 PM, Atul Kapur said: As I read Chuch Ayers' responses, it seems that there is some information missing that would explain the confusion I sense. I wonder if the ballots are actually mail (or email) ballots and that balloting is over an extended period of time (suggested by his phrase " the only eligible candidate to remain through the close of the election "). In any case, a candidate "dropping out" does not affect the results of the election nor its validity. If the candidate who stayed as a candidate won the election, then that person won the election. No need for a special election. The other possibility that comes to mind is that the candidate who dropped out actually won the election. At that point, the candidate could decline the office and further ballots would be held. Again, no need for a special election. (didn't we have a recent topic about this?) Let me provide more details and see if I can be more clear on the issue. This was an election for the board of directors of a national membership association. The election is open for 1 month and votes can be cast online or on a paper ballot. There is no limit on the number of candidates. The candidate that gets the most votes wins. In the case of having 3 or more candidates, there is no requirement to hold a run-off election if no one gets a majority. The candidate with greatest number of votes wins with or without a majority. Write-in candidates are allowed. In this election there were 2 people running for the position. With a few days remaining in the voting, one candidate dropped out of the race, leaving a single candidate in the race. The election continued on and the voting ended at the end of the voting period. After the votes were counted it was determined that the candidate that dropped out got the most votes. There were a handful of votes for write-in candidates, but not even close to enough to be a factor. Now, after the election is finished, some on the board are saying that we must hold a new special election and allow other candidates to be on the ballot to select the director, while others are saying that when a candidate drops out of the election, the remaining candidate or candidates continue on and the winner is determined by the highest number of votes for the remaining candidates. My question is whether Roberts Rules addresses this situation. I have reviewed the by-laws of several other associations and most do not address this. One that did address this said the election continues on as if the candidate that dropped out was never on the ballot. Here is what is says.... https://www.apa.org/about/governance/bylaws/rules-110.aspx 110-5.7Filling vacancies (Board and Committee Members Elected by Council). If a candidate for any APA board or committee elected by Council withdraws or becomes ineligible before the election results are tabulated or resigns or cannot serve after election results are certified by the Elections Committee or after his or her term has begun, the vote will be recounted as if the resigning member's name had not been on the ballot. Based on the recount, the position shall be offered to the candidates in order of most votes received. If no candidate on the original ballot is eligible or willing to serve, a special election will be held if more than half the term remains, or if less than half the term remains, then the board or committee may appoint a person to fill the vacancy. In the case of appointment or special election, the board or committee shall attempt to choose an appointee or construct a slate of nominees with the same qualifications as originally sought unless the need no longer exists. In summary, all I'm trying to figure out is if Roberts Rules prescribes how this situation must be addressed. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zev Posted November 11, 2018 at 09:13 PM Report Share Posted November 11, 2018 at 09:13 PM If what you have quoted in rule 110-5.7 is in some other organization's bylaws, it has no effect whatsoever on what takes place in your organization. In my opinion the so-called "dropped out candidate" that won the election outright is in fact the winner. He is to be informed of the election result and at that time he will make his decision as to whether he will take the office or not. If he declines then the election is an incomplete election and you will then follow the rules in your bylaws for that event. If your bylaws say nothing about incomplete elections then conduct another election round and take it from there. Stand by for other opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck akers Posted November 11, 2018 at 09:20 PM Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2018 at 09:20 PM 3 minutes ago, Guest Zev said: If what you have quoted in rule 110-5.7 is in some other organization's bylaws, it has no effect whatsoever on what takes place in your organization. In my opinion the so-called "dropped out candidate" that won the election outright is in fact the winner. He is to be informed of the election result and at that time he will make his decision as to whether he will take the office or not. If he declines then the election is an incomplete election and you will then follow the rules in your bylaws for that event. If your bylaws say nothing about incomplete elections then conduct another election round and take it from there. Stand by for other opinions. Thanks for your input. FYI, the candidate that dropped out did so because he took job with the association, and our by-laws don't allow employees to serve on the board. He was required to drop out to accept the position, so I suppose the right term for him should be "ineligible". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted November 11, 2018 at 10:22 PM Report Share Posted November 11, 2018 at 10:22 PM 3 hours ago, chuck akers said: Let me provide more details and see if I can be more clear on the issue. This was an election for the board of directors of a national membership association. The election is open for 1 month and votes can be cast online or on a paper ballot. There is no limit on the number of candidates. The candidate that gets the most votes wins. In the case of having 3 or more candidates, there is no requirement to hold a run-off election if no one gets a majority. The candidate with greatest number of votes wins with or without a majority. Write-in candidates are allowed. In this election there were 2 people running for the position. With a few days remaining in the voting, one candidate dropped out of the race, leaving a single candidate in the race. The election continued on and the voting ended at the end of the voting period. After the votes were counted it was determined that the candidate that dropped out got the most votes. There were a handful of votes for write-in candidates, but not even close to enough to be a factor. Now, after the election is finished, some on the board are saying that we must hold a new special election and allow other candidates to be on the ballot to select the director, while others are saying that when a candidate drops out of the election, the remaining candidate or candidates continue on and the winner is determined by the highest number of votes for the remaining candidates. My question is whether Roberts Rules addresses this situation. I have reviewed the by-laws of several other associations and most do not address this. One that did address this said the election continues on as if the candidate that dropped out was never on the ballot. Here is what is says.... (Emphasis added by RB and rest of post omitted) Mr. Akers, as Mr. Novosielski asked you back on November 9, we really need to know what YOUR organization's bylaws say about your elections and also about vacancies. Please don't paraphrase, but quote the applicable provisions from your bylaws exactly. Unfortunately, RONR does not deal specifically with what happened in your situation but does provide some guidance which can be helpful. First, though, it will help us if we know what YOUR bylaws say. The provisions in some other organization's bylaws simply are not applicable.... but might serve as a guide for amending yours. In my opinion, there is a real question whether this person actually consented to serve if elected. By consenting to run, I would say he did. Then, prior to election, he apparently decided he doesn't want the office after all. The question (or one of the questions) is whether that amounts to a withdrawal of his consent to serve if elected... and whether it is even possible to withdraw the consent once given. If he did not consent to the election, and if he declined to serve immediately after being elected, it can be argued that there is an incomplete election. But, if he is deemed to have consented to the election and that his consent was never validly withdrawn, then he has been elected whether he likes it or not. A resignation would then be necessary, or certainly advisable. Knowing what your bylaws say might help us, but ultimately I think it is going to be up to your organization to interpret its own bylaws (particularly the election and vacancy provisions) and determine whether there is an incomplete election which is merely completed as soon as possible, or a resignation, which must be filled according to your vacancy filling provisions. I don't think RONR provides a clear answer and I suspect you will get varying opinions as to the status of this individual and how to deal with it. But, quote us your bylaw provisions and we will go from there. btw, if it turns out he was ineligible for election, that tends to lead me to say the situation should be treated as an incomplete election rather than a vacancy, especially if he accepted the job prior to the election being final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted November 12, 2018 at 02:39 PM Report Share Posted November 12, 2018 at 02:39 PM (edited) 20 hours ago, chuck akers said: My question is whether Roberts Rules addresses this situation. So far as RONR is concerned, another round of voting would be required, since the candidate who received a majority declined the election. Even if he was ineligible, that would not change anything, since votes for ineligible candidates are treated as illegal votes, which are included in the total. It’s possible that the rules in your bylaws would change this, but I don’t think so, since a majority vote is still required (at least in the first round), and there does not appear to be any special rules about how to count votes for ineligible candidate. What is said in some other organization’s bylaws on this subject is irrelevant. This is not, however, a special election - it is a continuation of the same election. In the ordinary case, the society could (but need not) reopen nominations, and write-in votes would be in ordèr. The potential complication is how this interacts with your runoff rules (assuming those rules are, in fact, in your bylaws). Edited November 12, 2018 at 02:46 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted November 12, 2018 at 06:23 PM Report Share Posted November 12, 2018 at 06:23 PM Given the extra information provided, I agree with Mr. Martin that this is an incomplete election because the candidate with the most votes was ineligible. While I'm writing: The APA bylaws are completely irrelevant to your organization. I also happen to think that their solution is a bad idea because it throws away all the votes for the person who is no longer a candidate. Consider the following scenario: Three candidates (A, B, X). 40% prefer A, are okay with B, but do not like X. 25% prefer B, are okay with A, but do not like X. 35% prefer X, but do not like A or B. Assuming 100 voters, A would get the most votes. However, if A is declared ineligible, then the APA rules would declare X the winner (35 votes for X, 25 for B, remainder of the votes thrown out). The 40 who voted for A are completely disenfranchised. APA is free to do that in their bylaws, but I don't recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zev Posted November 12, 2018 at 09:53 PM Report Share Posted November 12, 2018 at 09:53 PM On 11/11/2018 at 1:20 PM, chuck akers said: FYI, the candidate that dropped out did so because he took job with the association, and our by-laws don't allow employees to serve on the board. It is possible that the person in question became an employee, and therefore ineligible, only after the election took place. If this is true then the ballots cast for him at the time were valid. But I do not know this for a fact. Also, it is possible that the person in question may resign as an employee and therefore the bylaw restriction would vanish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Student Posted November 13, 2018 at 12:49 AM Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 at 12:49 AM On 11/11/2018 at 1:34 PM, chuck akers said: With a few days remaining in the voting, one candidate dropped out of the race, leaving a single candidate in the race. The election continued on and the voting ended at the end of the voting period. After the votes were counted it was determined that the candidate that dropped out got the most votes. On 11/11/2018 at 4:20 PM, chuck akers said: the candidate that dropped out did so because he took job with the association, and our by-laws don't allow employees to serve on the board it seems quite clear from these two posts that the candidate became ineligible while the polls were open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zev Posted November 13, 2018 at 02:09 AM Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 at 02:09 AM Perhaps it is possible to determine the date on which each ballot was cast and tally them accordingly. The problem is that some voters may not have been aware of the situation and were prevented from selecting a different candidate. The only solution that I think would inspire confidence from the membership would be to conduct another round of voting as Mr. Martin has suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted November 13, 2018 at 02:38 PM Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 at 02:38 PM 12 hours ago, Guest Zev said: Perhaps it is possible to determine the date on which each ballot was cast and tally them accordingly. The problem is that some voters may not have been aware of the situation and were prevented from selecting a different candidate. The only solution that I think would inspire confidence from the membership would be to conduct another round of voting as Mr. Martin has suggested. Yes, of course, because this is the proper course of action regardless of when the candidate became ineligible or when the ballots were cast. Illegal votes are still counted in the total. Whether this person was ineligible or was eligible and declined makes no difference at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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