Previous voted on Motion called null and void 7 months later

[pamclant]

A motion which passed over six months ago was recently bought to the floor at a yesterday by a member stating the motion was out of order when passed.  Thereby, it is null and void and does not exist. There was no discussion by the body because this person holds an higher position as a Regional Phylacter.  I have searched ROR 11th edition but can not find rule.  Is this true? And where can I locate in ROR.

Thank You.

[Richard Brown]

8 minutes ago, pamclant said:

A motion which passed over six months ago was recently bought to the floor at a yesterday by a member stating the motion was out of order when passed.  Thereby, it is null and void and does not exist. There was no discussion by the body because this person holds an higher position as a Regional Phylacter.  I have searched ROR 11th edition but can not find rule.  Is this true? And where can I locate in ROR.

Thank You.

Well, a motion that was previously adopted CAN be ruled null and void under certain circumstances.  We need more information  as to just what happened and why it was ruled out of order when passed.  The circumstances under which a previously adopted motion can be ruled invalid are very limited.  Please give us some more information, particularly the reason the motion was supposedly out of order and who made the ruling and whether the ruling was appealed to the assembly. 

Edited to add:  What is a "Regional  Phylacter"????

Edited December 3, 2018 at 03:04 AM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Joshua Katz]

Is the Phylacter a member of the body that adopted the motion in the first place? In any event, what happened next?

[pamclant]

The motion was related to withholding monies raised for our Chapters Charitable Arm until report of Finacial Audit is received.  The Charitable Arm is requesting the money without the Financial Audit.  The members were told that requesting and audit and withholding the funds was ‘ out of order’ .

[Richard Brown]

1 minute ago, pamclant said:

The motion was related to withholding monies raised for our Chapters Charitable Arm until report of Finacial Audit is received.  The Charitable Arm is requesting the money without the Financial Audit.  The members were told that requesting and audit and withholding the funds was ‘ out of order’ .

We need more than that.  On what basis was the motion supposedly out of order?  Did it violate the bylaws in some way? 

btw, you still haven't told us what a "Regional Phylacter" is and what role he/she/it  plays in this.  It is usually the chair... the presiding officer... who makes rulings, and those rulings are almost always subject to appeal to the assembly.

[Chris Harrison]

We don't know the hierarchy of the organization so it is hard to say for sure but my default position is that anyone claiming that something is "null and void" will need to prove it.  As far as RONR is concerned there are only five exceptions to the rule that a Point of Order needs to be timely and they are on p. 251.  Whether this is the case and if this "Regional Phylacter" has the authority to make this claim is for you all to determine.

Edited December 3, 2018 at 03:24 AM by Chris Harrison

[pamclant]

The motion was related to withholding monies raised for our Chapters Charitable Arm until report of Finacial Audit is received.  The Charitable Arm is requesting the money without the Financial Audit.  The members were told that requesting and audit and withholding the funds was ‘ out of order’ .  This member is a chapter where our organization has members working on three level which includes local, Regional, and National.  A member can hold hold an office at any level of the organization  be it appointed or elected. 

[pamclant]

The Regional Phylacter is an elected position within our organization. It holds a level of authority due to only being a position members can go to for inquiry.

[Richard Brown]

If RONR is your parliamentary authority, only the chair can make rulings on points of order unless you have a customized WRITTEN Special Rule of Order or a bylaw provision to the contrary.   Anybody can raise a point of order and object to almost anything for almost any reason, but that doesn't mean the objection (point of order) is well taken or should be sustained.  It is the chair who makes those decisions, subject to an appeal to the assembly, unless you have a written rule to the contrary.  The Grand Poobah of the Royal Order of the Entire Universe can make an objection, but it is the presiding officer of the meeting... the chair... who makes rulings.  The Grand Poobah has no special powers in RONR.  He is simply another member.... if he is a member at all. He may wear a glittery hat or even a crown, but if he isn't the presiding officer, he is there either as a regular member or a guest.   If he is so considered so powerful  that the chair cowers in his presence and members are afraid to appeal a ruling, well, that is something you and your organization have to work out for yourselves.

I haven't yet seen anything to make me  believe the point of  order was well taken or that the motion was properly declared invalid by someone with the authority to do so, but there is apparently much to this situation that we don't know.

[pamclant]

There is nothing is in our bylaws that supports that the motion adopted was out of order.

[pamclant]

Thank you Mr. Brown..you have answered my question. 

[Guest CAM]

What if the votes were taken at a meeting where there was a declared quorum present but it was later (after the meeting adjourned) determined that there was no quorum present?  

[Josh Martin]

9 minutes ago, Guest CAM said:

What if the votes were taken at a meeting where there was a declared quorum present but it was later (after the meeting adjourned) determined that there was no quorum present?  

The votes may still be declared null and void, provided that there is clear and convincing proof that a quorum was not present when the votes were taken.

“Because of the difficulty likely to be encountered in determining exactly how long the meeting has been without a quorum in such cases, a point of order relating to the absence of a quorum is generally not permitted to affect prior action; but upon clear and convincing proof, such a point of order can be given effect retrospectively by a ruling of the presiding officer, subject to appeal (24).” (RONR, 11th ed., pg. 349)

For future reference, it is generally best to post a new question as a new topic, even if an existing topic appears similar.