Can the VP make a motion?

[Guest Doug Howell]

Hello. I am a newly elected President, and am absorbing Roberts Rules. This may sound like a silly question, but I haven't seen anything to address this question: Can the VP make a motion?

Thank you for your time.

[Richard Brown]

29 minutes ago, Guest Doug Howell said:

Can the VP make a motion?

Yes, if RONR is your parliamentary authority, the vice president can participate just as fully as any other member (as long as he isn't presiding). 

Edited July 4, 2019 at 04:40 PM by Richard Brown
added the portion in parentheses

[Guest Me. Brown]

Thank you, Mr. Brown. Over the spring, I was voted in as VP of our local group, as were the other officers. At the first meeting to be held by the new officers, the Pres. called the meeting to order, promptly resigned, and walked out the door. So now, I have assumed the role of President. It's been a crash course in RRoO for sure, but it's all coming in to focus. I just wasn't sure of the Cans/Cant's of the VP. Again, thank you for your time and the information.

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Guest Me. Brown said:

Thank you, Mr. Brown. Over the spring, I was voted in as VP of our local group, as were the other officers. At the first meeting to be held by the new officers, the Pres. called the meeting to order, promptly resigned, and walked out the door. So now, I have assumed the role of President. It's been a crash course in RRoO for sure, but it's all coming in to focus. I just wasn't sure of the Cans/Cant's of the VP. Again, thank you for your time and the information.

Well, unless your bylaws provide differently, you ARE the president.  You are no longer vice president. According to RONR, unless your bylaws provide otherwise, when there is a vacancy in the office of president, the vice president BECOMES president.  He is not just "assuming the role of president".  You now have a vacancy in the office of vice president.

Can you quote the exact language used in your bylaws about what happens in the event of a vacancy in the office of president? 

btw, we are happy to help you in any way we can. 

[jstackpo]

 More than likely, unless your bylaws are exceptional, you didn’t “assume the roll”, you ARE the President now. Congratulations! (Or my deepest sympathies, as appropriate.)

[Gary Novosielski]

8 hours ago, Guest Me. Brown said:

Thank you, Mr. Brown. Over the spring, I was voted in as VP of our local group, as were the other officers. At the first meeting to be held by the new officers, the Pres. called the meeting to order, promptly resigned, and walked out the door. So now, I have assumed the role of President. It's been a crash course in RRoO for sure, but it's all coming in to focus. I just wasn't sure of the Cans/Cant's of the VP. Again, thank you for your time and the information.

The VP can participate fully if not presiding.  But note well, you are no longer the VP.  Have you filled the vacancy in the office of VP yet?

[Guest Guest Doug Howell]

Thank you for your help guys. Yes, I understand that I am now President, and I do accept your apologies - lol.

I've been exploring the roles and duties of the other officers. I know I can't make a motion, but then I thought, Well if I can't, maybe VP can't either.

Our By-Laws say nothing about the succession of office. Only that elections are in odd numbered years, nominations are in March, elections in April, take office in May. That's it.

So my first big challenge is to get someone back in the VP chair, as properly as our (limited) By-Laws and Roberts Rules will allow for. And, yes, we have adopted Roberts Rules.

Based on this information, a new VP must be either a) Nominated and voted on by the Board, or b) Appointed to that position by the President? Correct?

If A) I believe I read, somewhere tonight, that proper notice must be given to announce that a special election will be held. Again, nothing in our By-Laws addresses this. Two weeks should be adequate. Would you agree?

Obviously, if I can appoint, I will do that with the person I feel is best suited for the job. Maybe I'm wrong on both counts. Any other options?

Again, thank you for all of your input and feedback. It's a sigh of relief to find others that speak "Roberts".

 

 

[jstackpo]

3 hours ago, Guest Guest Doug Howell said:

Our By-Laws say nothing about the succession of office. Only that elections are in odd numbered years, nominations are in March, elections in April, take office in May. That's it.

So my first big challenge is to get someone back in the VP chair, as properly as our (limited) By-Laws and Roberts Rules will allow for. And, yes, we have adopted Roberts Rules.

Based on this information, a new VP must be either a) Nominated and voted on by the Board, or b) Appointed to that position by the President? Correct?

Nope.   With nothing in your bylaws about filling vacancies, you need to run a special election, nominations and all, to fill the VP Vacancy.  RONR p. 575, unless your board had "full" authority - page 467.

As president you do NOT have any such authority unless your bylaws say so.

[Richard Brown]

5 hours ago, Guest Guest Doug Howell said:

Our By-Laws say nothing about the succession of office. Only that elections are in odd numbered years, nominations are in March, elections in April, take office in May. That's it.

So my first big challenge is to get someone back in the VP chair, as properly as our (limited) By-Laws and Roberts Rules will allow for. And, yes, we have adopted Roberts Rules.

Based on this information, a new VP must be either a) Nominated and voted on by the Board, or b) Appointed to that position by the President? Correct?

No, unless your bylaws provide otherwise, neither of those two options is correct.  Your MEMBERSHIP must hold an election and elect a new vice president.  The board has no authority to do that unless the bylaws grant it that authority. Vacancies must be filled by the body which elected the person in the first place unless your bylaws provide otherwise.  As Dr. Stackpole pointed out, you as president do not have the authority to appoint someone to fill the vacancy. 

Caveat:  Your bylaws might... directly or indirectly.... authorize the board to fill the vacancy.  Check your bylaws to see if they expressly grant the board the authority to fill vacancies.  If they do not expressly grant the board that authority... and apparently they do not... the board might have that power based on the other powers it has.  Please quote verbatim your bylaw provision, if any, regarding the powers of the board to conduct the business of the association between meetings of the membership.  Please quote exactly, don't paraphrase.  It might be that your board has the power to fill the vacancy. 

[Guest Doug Howell]

III Officers

  A. Officers of this organization shall be President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer, Parade Captain, and two Lieutenant Parade Captains.

  1. Nominations are made at the March meetings on odd-numbered years, from the floor and/or nominating committee, appointed by the President.

  2. Election is conducted at the April meeting on odd-numbered years.

  3. New officers will take over at the May meeting.

Section V Order of Business

A (Roll call .... Adjournment)

B Election of Officers

  1. Will be held at the end of New Business and before Adjournment of the April meeting on odd-numbered years.

Section VI  Committees

A. These Committees may be appointed by the President for one year: 1 Auditing, 2 Budget, 3 Membership, 4 NOMINATION, 5 Publicity, 6 Social, 7 Ways and Means, 8 Calander of Events

That's all there is. So, it looks like a Nomination Committee is the only thing addressing this situation. (Glad I asked this question.) Am I correct?

Thank you again for your help.

[Bruce Lages]

2 minutes ago, Guest Doug Howell said:

Section VI  Committees

A. These Committees may be appointed by the President for one year: 1 Auditing, 2 Budget, 3 Membership, 4 NOMINATION, 5 Publicity, 6 Social, 7 Ways and Means, 8 Calander of Events

That's all there is. So, it looks like a Nomination Committee is the only thing addressing this situation. (Glad I asked this question.) Am I correct?

Thank you again for your help.

No, not necessarily. These provisions apply to your regular biennial elections - is there a bylaws article that covers vacancies in officer positions?

[Guest Doug Howell]

No sir. All the information I listed above are the only things in the By-Laws that address officer elections. It's like the original creators of these By-Laws had no "What if ..." vision. The general consensus of the other members of this group has been, "If it's not addressed in the By-Laws, we'll find the answer in Roberts Rules". Yeah, it's a mess.

[jstackpo]

19 minutes ago, Guest Doug Howell said:

"If it's not addressed in the By-Laws, we'll find the answer in Roberts Rules".

And that is how it should be!   Not a "mess" at all.

No question, then:  hold a special election to fill the remainder of the V-P's term.  (Or wait, with fingers crossed, until the next regular election date comes around and vote someone in then.)

[Guest Doug Howell]

Yes, I agree. It's not a mess. It is a definitive path to follow.

All the above being said, would the following sequence of events be acceptable? Our next upcoming meeting is Monday July 15th.

* Announce now that a Special Election will be held at our next meeting to fill the vacancy of VP.

* At the appropriate time in meeting, accept nominations for VP, vote via ballot, also in meeting.

* Count votes, announce the winner, and have that person's term begin immediately.

I know a Nomination Committee will play a role in there somewhere. Am I on the right track? My goal is to place a VP in office at our next meeting, and not drag it out, as our initial elections did. But again, I want to do it right.

[Richard Brown]

Guest Doug, you still haven't posted the provision in your bylaws regarding the powers of your board. What, if anything, do your bylaws say about the power of the board to conduct the Affairs of the organization?

It might well be that your board can fill the vacancy, but we won't know until you quote the provision in your bylaws about the power of the board to manage or conduct the affairs of the organization.

Edited July 6, 2019 at 04:06 PM by Richard Brown
Typographical correction.

[Richard Brown]

13 minutes ago, Guest Doug Howell said:

I know a Nomination Committee will play a role in there somewhere. Am I on the right track? 

Not necessarily. In fact, probably not. As Bruce Lages stated in his answer above, the nominating committee comes into play usually only for your regular elections at your annual or biennial meeting. A nominating committee is normally not used for a special election. You may adopt a motion to create a nominating committee to make nominations to fill this vacancy, but that would likely result in delaying the actual election by a month.

[Atul Kapur]

23 minutes ago, Guest Doug Howell said:

All the above being said, would the following sequence of events be acceptable? Our next upcoming meeting is Monday July 15th.

* Announce now that a Special Election will be held at our next meeting to fill the vacancy of VP.

* At the appropriate time in meeting, accept nominations for VP, vote via ballot, also in meeting.

* Count votes, announce the winner, and have that person's term begin immediately.

Sounds reasonable. Get the notice out asap. 

1 hour ago, Guest Doug Howell said:

It's like the original creators of these By-Laws had no "What if ..." vision.

Quite common. I like to think of the bylaws as insurance. You don't need them until you need them, but when you do, you want them to be comprehensive. Need to write them with that in mind.

1 hour ago, Guest Doug Howell said:

The general consensus of the other members of this group has been, "If it's not addressed in the By-Laws, we'll find the answer in Roberts Rules".

That's actually a good approach, generally. There are some specific things that should still be explicit in your bylaws, such as filling vacancies.

[Guest Doug Howell]

Can I snap a few pics of our By-Laws and attach them? 6 pages. I just don't see anything else in there about this. The only other "blanket statement" that may be the answer says " Business and other matters involving this association will be voted on by a quorum of the membership."

[Atul Kapur]

I think people are looking for anything that says what the powers of your Board or officers are. You quoted the parts of Section OKI III Officers that talked about how they are elected but is there anything about what their powers are?

Edited July 6, 2019 at 07:50 PM by Atul Kapur
Corrected typo as noted

[Gary Novosielski]

From what I've seen quoted so far, it's not evident that you even have a Board.

[Richard Brown]

5 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said:

From what I've seen quoted so far, it's not evident that you even have a Board.

I have to agree, Gary.  I've been wondering the same thing.  To date, guest Doug Howell has not posted a word from the bylaws about the board or its powers, despite several requests to do so.  Mr. Howell, please post the relevant provision from your bylaws about the powers of the board.... and maybe also the provision which provides that there shall be a board.

[Doug Howell]

I'm trying my best to comply. In speaking with our Treasurer, she says that we don't have a Board. She said the Board is a collective term for the Officers. I cannot quote or provide a provision pertaining to any powers of "The Board" as they are simply non-existent. The word "Board" is not even written anywhere in the entire body of work that is collectively The By-Laws.

[jstackpo]

Then, clearly, you don't have a "Board".   Whatever the association wants to do, the members are free to  adopt a motion to do it.  They, the members, are the only grouping of people who can speak (collectively) for the association.

The officers might have some particular powers (and responsibilities) but those, if any, should be stated in the bylaws.

[Doug Howell]

Thank you. So in your opinion, the membership should vote in the VP, as opposed to appointment by the President?

[Richard Brown]

15 minutes ago, Doug Howell said:

Thank you. So in your opinion, the membership should vote in the VP, as opposed to appointment by the President?

Yes, absolutely.  The president has no authority to appoint anyone to the position of vice president or to any other office.