Signing the minutes

[Christy]

This is continuing the thread I had previous posted regarding the Secretary Pro Tempore.

We had our meeting a somebody was asked to be the Secretary Pro Tempore.  The president of our HOA did explain it was just for that meeting.

We did elect a permanent secretary but she could attend this February meeting but will be there at our March meeting..

The lady ( Secretary Pro Tempore)  now want to sign the notes she took and read them out at the next meeting which is in March.

 

From our Bylaws:  These are the elected official board members,

c.             The Secretary will:

 

(1)          Have responsibility of recording minutes at each meeting, insuring approved minutes are signed by Secretary, and providing homeowners with approved minutes within 2-weeks of meeting.  

 

I am at a complete loss right now so any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you !

 

 

[Rob Elsman]

The secretary pro tempore is the secretary for that meeting; therefore she has the same powers and responsibilities as a "permanent" secretary with respect to the meeting's minutes. She should, indeed, sign them and submit them for approval. She also seems to have an additional responsibility of "providing" (mailing?) them to homeowners within two weeks of some kind of meeting (of what?).

[Christy]

Thank you for your reply.   

 

Re:  "She also seems to have an additional responsibility of "providing" (mailing?) them to homeowners within two weeks of some kind of meeting (of what?)."

This responsibility is for the elected permanent secretary.

I have taken notes when the permanent secretary was absent but I did not sign them or read them.

This has me baffled.   But thank you for your reply.

[Atul Kapur]

2 hours ago, Christy said:

(1)          Have responsibility of recording minutes at each meeting, insuring approved minutes are signed by Secretary, and providing homeowners with approved minutes within 2-weeks of meeting.  [emphasis added]

It appears that the Secretary is only to sign the approved minutes. Thus, the signature is the indication that the minutes have been approved. (This is different from the procedure in RONR p. 471, lines 30-32 and p. 475, lines 15-17, but bylaws supercede RONR.)

So, if the permanent Secretary is able to sign the approved minutes, I don't see any need for the pro-tem Secretary to sign them.

[Christy]

Bless you Atul.  right on !!

[Richard Brown]

23 hours ago, Atul Kapur said:

It appears that the Secretary is only to sign the approved minutes. Thus, the signature is the indication that the minutes have been approved. (This is different from the procedure in RONR p. 471, lines 30-32 and p. 475, lines 15-17, but bylaws supercede RONR.)

So, if the permanent Secretary is able to sign the approved minutes, I don't see any need for the pro-tem Secretary to sign them.

I agree with Dr. Kapur and would add that the duty of providing a copy of the approved minutes to the homeowners is an administrative duty of the regular elected secretary and would not be the responsibility of a secretary pro tem chosen to serve for one meeting any more than a chairman pro tem would have the administrative powers or responsibilities  of the regular chairman after the meeting is over.

The secretary pro tem would have a duty to either transcribe the minutes from the meeting at which he served or to turn over his notes to the regular  secretary to be transcribed, but his duties would end at that point. He certainly would have no obligation to permanently retain the minutes he took in a sturdy binder to be made available for inspection by the members. That is the duty and responsibility of the regular secretary. The requirement in this organization’s  bylaws for the secretary to provide homeowners with a copy of the minutes is a duty of the permanent secretary, not the secretary pro tem from a particular meeting.

Edited February 11, 2020 at 05:22 PM by Richard Brown
Added a paragraph break and changed the wording of the first sentence slightly

[Richard Brown]

On 2/10/2020 at 9:12 AM, Christy said:

From our Bylaws:  These are the elected official board members,

c.             The Secretary will:

(1)          Have responsibility of recording minutes at each meeting, insuring approved minutes are signed by Secretary, and providing homeowners with approved minutes within 2-weeks of meeting.  

Christy, just FYI, this is a poorly drafted provision.  For example, is the secretary to send copies of approved minutes to the homeowners within two weeks of the meeting at which the minutes were taken, or within two weeks of the meeting at which the minutes are approved?   Does that provision refer to some other meeting?  Does this  organization utilize a minutes approval committee which approves the minutes in time for the secretary to provide homeowners with a copy of the approved minutes within two weeks of the meeting at which the minutes were taken?  I think you can tell by some of our comments that we are troubled by that provision.

[Christy]

Re:   "For example, is the secretary to send copies of approved minutes to the homeowners within two weeks of the meeting at which the minutes were taken, or within two weeks of the meeting at which the minutes are approved? "  Yes Richard and I agree with you.  And this Secretary Pro Tem will be reading the minutes and signing them. I have talked to the president and she said "I believe we are good"  No we are not. !!

We have had instances when the homeowners never did get the minutes until a few months later.

I am doing my research, State First and then RRO if it is not in our Bylaws.  This is very frustrating to me also.

The Board approves the minutes when they are read out at the next meeting which is 2 months away.  We did have one secretary who said she was not going to read them out but she sent them to the board to approve before the meeting.

[Atul Kapur]

1 hour ago, Christy said:

And this Secretary Pro Tem will be reading the minutes and signing them.

I don't have a big problem with the pro tem secretary who took the notes at meeting 1 reading the draft minutes of meeting 1 at the next meeting. As for the signature, the RONR citation I gave earlier states that the secretary signs them when they are submitted. Your bylaws say differently, but the disagreement you are having on this suggests some are operating as if RONR applies.

1 hour ago, Christy said:

We did have one secretary who said she was not going to read them out but she sent them to the board to approve before the meeting.

If the draft minutes are distributed ahead of the meeting, the actual reading of the minutes can be skipped. The approval of the minutes still has to happen at the meeting.

[Gary Novosielski]

20 hours ago, Christy said:

We did have one secretary who said she was not going to read them out but she sent them to the board to approve before the meeting.

That's fine as long as no one objects, but the minutes must be read aloud on the demand of a single member, even if copies have been provided.  A secretary who says she does not intend to carry out her duties should be replaced.