Reconsideration without quorum

[Guest No quorum]

If in a meeting the quorum vanishes can you then still make a motion for "reconsideration and at to the minutes"   for a motion that was adopted by a majority while there was a quorum?

[paul545]

If there was no quorum at a meeting, or a meeting loses quorum then there is no meeting.  Any actions mistakenly taken after a meeting loses quorum will have to be reconsidered and discussed with all of the board members at such time that the board reschedules the meeting with a quorum present.

[Atul Kapur]

20 minutes ago, Guest No quorum said:

If in a meeting the quorum vanishes can you then still make a motion for "reconsideration and at to the minutes"   for a motion that was adopted by a majority while there was a quorum?

RONR (12th ed.) 37:49 suggests not: "To illustrate the use of this form of the motion, suppose that at a long meeting of a county historical society, many members have left, unknowingly leaving a quorum composed mainly of a small group determined to commit the society to certain action that a few of those present believe would be opposed by most of the membership." (emphasis added)

I don't believe that Reconsider or its variant fall under any of the categories of motions permitted in the absence of a quorum as listed in RONR (12th ed.) 40:7.

[paul545]

Atul, what would be the variant of reconsider  you refer to that you don't believe are permitted.

[Weldon Merritt]

5 minutes ago, paul545 said:

Atul, what would be the variant of reconsider  you refer to that you don't believe are permitted.

I'm not Atul, but I'm confident that he was referring to Reconsider and Enter on the Minutes (the proper title of the motion I think Guest No quorum meant).

[paul545]

Are the board members that were present at the quorumless meeting allowed to ratify their actions and decisions at the next meeting where there is a quorum without reconsideration and discussion that includes a full quorum.

 

 

[Guest No quorum]

Yes tear was the motion I was referring to.

Still strange, the motion is to prevent a small group from causing " mischief " and then that same group can by leaving (and leaving  the meeting without quorum) prevent a reconsideration at the next meeting ( with a quorum)

[paul545]

a board usually has wiggle room between the number of positions and the number required for quorum.  If quorum is barely being met at meetings.  There either are unfilled vacancies on the board or several board members aren't attending meetings as  they agreed to when they took on the position on the board.

[Atul Kapur]

6 hours ago, Weldon Merritt said:

I'm not Atul, but I'm confident that he was referring to Reconsider and Enter on the Minutes (the proper title of the motion I think Guest No quorum meant).

Thanks, Weldon; you are, of course, correct.

I'd be happy to give you my proxy to speak on my behalf (I'd sound much more intelligent) but RONR frowns on them.

Edited September 21, 2020 at 12:58 AM by Atul Kapur

[Richard Brown]

6 hours ago, paul545 said:

If there was no quorum at a meeting, or a meeting loses quorum then there is no meeting.  Any actions mistakenly taken after a meeting loses quorum will have to be reconsidered and discussed with all of the board members at such time that the board reschedules the meeting with a quorum present.

Well, that’s not exactly true. A meeting may be held and may continue without a quorum, but the assembly is limited as to the actions it can take in the absence of a quorum. RONR states that The following motions are permissible in the absence of a quorum: A motion to take a recess; a motion to take action to obtain a quorum, such as contacting absent members; a motion to adjourn; and a motion to fix the time to which to adjourn (to set an adjourned meeting). RONR (12th Ed.) 40:6 - 40.9 

In addition, the presence of a quorum, once established, is presumed to continue at a meeting.  If a meeting loses a quorum, but the absence of a quorum is not noticed until later in the meeting, It requires clear and convincing evidence that a quorum was absent in order to invalidate action taken prior to time that the absence of the quorum was discovered. RONR (12th Ed.) 40.12

Certain actions taken in the absence of a quorum can be ratified at a later meeting, but not reconsidered.  40.9 and 10.54 - 10.57. 

[Atul Kapur]

5 hours ago, Guest No quorum said:

Yes tear was the motion I was referring to.

Still strange, the motion is to prevent a small group from causing " mischief " and then that same group can by leaving (and leaving  the meeting without quorum) prevent a reconsideration at the next meeting ( with a quorum)

It would be an incredibly rare set of circumstances to make this possible:
1) Attendance has evaporated down to this mischievous group which is small but large enough that they are a majority of those remaining and without whom there is no longer a quorum.

2) They successfully adopt the mischievous motion.

3) Then, in a coordinated maneuvre, enough of them leave so that there is no longer a quorum but at least one remains to make the point of order doubting the quorum. This has to be done in a coordinated manner, and likely even pre-planned, because this step has to occur so quickly that no member can obtain the floor to move Reconsider and Enter on the Minutes before the point of order is raised.

Let me know when this happens.

[Shmuel Gerber]

1 hour ago, Atul Kapur said:

Then, in a coordinated maneuvre

I like it. Not too American, not too British.

[Atul Kapur]

1 hour ago, Shmuel Gerber said:

I like it. Not too American, not too British.

i.e., a Canadian

[Shmuel Gerber]

8 hours ago, Atul Kapur said:

i.e., a Canadian

Just in case it wasn't clear, I was making a joke (or trying to) about the spelling "maneuvre". Is that a standard Canadian spelling?

[Josh Martin]

20 hours ago, Guest No quorum said:

If in a meeting the quorum vanishes can you then still make a motion for "reconsideration and at to the minutes"   for a motion that was adopted by a majority while there was a quorum?

No.

20 hours ago, paul545 said:

If there was no quorum at a meeting, or a meeting loses quorum then there is no meeting.  Any actions mistakenly taken after a meeting loses quorum will have to be reconsidered and discussed with all of the board members at such time that the board reschedules the meeting with a quorum present.

A meeting continues to exist in the absence of a quorum, although only a few limited procedural actions can be taken.

I would also be careful with the use of the word "reconsidered," which has a very particular meaning in parliamentary law.

19 hours ago, paul545 said:

Are the board members that were present at the quorumless meeting allowed to ratify their actions and decisions at the next meeting where there is a quorum without reconsideration and discussion that includes a full quorum.

They are permitted to ratify their actions, yes. The motion to Ratify is debatable and requires a majority vote for adoption, and obviously this must be done when a quorum is present.

The motion to Reconsider, however, is a particular motion in parliamentary law, so that's why you should be careful about using the word "reconsideration."

Edited September 21, 2020 at 02:51 PM by Josh Martin

[Atul Kapur]

3 hours ago, Shmuel Gerber said:

Just in case it wasn't clear, I was making a joke (or trying to) about the spelling "maneuvre". Is that a standard Canadian spelling?

It looks like we both need to use the smiling-face emoji to label our jokes 😁

As far as I can tell, it's not a standard spelling. It's not even listed in the Oxford Dictionary of Canadian English. Online dictionaries all refer to it as non-standard or variant. Interestingly, the website wordnik.com (😊) gives several examples of it, from the UK, United States, and Australia. So there's hope that it may be recognized at some point in time.