Standing Committee Authority

[Tomm]

Would it be correct to say that a Standing Committee appointed by the Board "is not considered to be a form of assembly" (50:1) and unless it was appointed "with power" (50:5) which means it has no autonomous authority to do anything except present a report to the Board, after which motions can made to implement the recommendations?   

[Dan Honemann]

31 minutes ago, Tomm said:

Would it be correct to say that a Standing Committee appointed by the Board "is not considered to be a form of assembly" (50:1) and unless it was appointed "with power" (50:5) which means it has no autonomous authority to do anything except present a report to the Board, after which motions can made to implement the recommendations?   

Yes, such a committee is not considered to be a form of assembly, but as for the board's appointment of a committee "with power", please pay particular attention to what is said in 49:12.

[Guest Puzzling]

On 1/14/2021 at 9:58 PM, Tomm said:

Would it be correct to say that a Standing Committee appointed by the Board "is not considered to be a form of assembly" (50:1) and unless it was appointed "with power" (50:5) which means it has no autonomous authority to do anything except present a report to the Board, after which motions can made to implement the recommendations?   

Wondering about how the board can be appointed by the board.

Standing Committees are regulated by the bylaws, the board cannot set them up (assuming the bylaws does not give them that power) 

So committees set up by the board are almost all temporary committees.

Members of committee are most often appointed by the president or by the (member) meeting. RoNR does not even mention appointment by the board as option.

 

[Dan Honemann]

Nothing in RONR prevents a board from appointing a standing committee of its own.

[Josh Martin]

2 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

Standing Committees are regulated by the bylaws, the board cannot set them up (assuming the bylaws does not give them that power) 

So committees set up by the board are almost all temporary committees.

That's not exactly what RONR says.

"If certain standing committees are enumerated in the bylaws, no standing committee aside from those enumerated can be established without amending the bylaws, unless the bylaws also include a provision authorizing the creation of additional standing committees (see also 56:44–48). A standing committee of a society reports to the assembly of the society, and not to the executive board or board of directors, unless the bylaws provide otherwise." RONR (12th ed.) 50:9

"As a general principle, a board cannot delegate its authority—that is, it cannot empower a subordinate group to act independently in its name—except as may be authorized by the bylaws (of the society) or other instrument under which the board is constituted; but any board can appoint committees to work under its supervision or according to its specific instructions. Such committees of the board always report to the board." RONR (12th ed.) 49:12

So if the bylaws specify certain standing committees of the board, then it is correct that the board cannot establish additional standing committees unless the bylaws authorize this. If the bylaws are silent regarding standing committees of the board, then the board can establish standing committees.

Certainly the board cannot create standing committees of the society unless so authorized by the bylaws (or if authorized by the society to do so in a particular case), but since the question asks about committees which report to the board, it seems apparent that the question was about committees of the board.

2 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

Members of committee are most often appointed by the president or by the (member) meeting. RoNR does not even mention appointment by the board as option.

RONR discusses methods of appointment for committees. Some organizations provide in their bylaws that committees are appointed by the President, as you note. If the bylaws have no such provision, the committee could be appointed by the members of the assembly (and there are several methods for this) or the assembly could authorize the chairman to appoint the committee. If the committee is a committee of the society's membership, then it is correct that the society's membership would be the assembly in question. If the committee is a committee of the board, however, then the assembly is the board.

I also am inclined to think that if the organization's rules are silent on this matter, the society's membership also could delegate the authority to the board to appoint a committee in a particular case if it wished to do so, notwithstanding that this is not listed in the methods of appointment. This is not relevant to this question, however, as the question quite clearly relates to committees of the board.

Edited January 16, 2021 at 06:44 PM by Josh Martin

[Guest Puzzling]

8 hours ago, Josh Martin said:

So if the bylaws specify certain standing committees of the board, then it is correct that the board cannot establish additional standing committees unless the bylaws authorize this. If the bylaws are silent regarding standing committees of the board, then the board can establish standing committees.

Is this not against RONR(12) 56:68 4th point?

If the bylaws authorize the forming of standing committees only to the members meeting then a board meeting may not form them.

 

[Josh Martin]

55 minutes ago, Guest Puzzling said:

Is this not against RONR(12) 56:68 4th point?

"If the bylaws authorize certain things specifically, other things of the same class are thereby prohibited." RONR (12th ed.) 56:68

No, I don't think so. It would seem to me that standing committees of the membership and standing committees of the board are not "things of the same class."

Edited January 17, 2021 at 03:58 AM by Josh Martin

[Guest Puzzling]

On 1/17/2021 at 3:58 AM, Josh Martin said:

It would seem to me that standing committees of the membership and standing committees of the board are not "things of the same class."

For the sake of discussion I disagree.

And otherwise the right of the board to create its own standing Committees needs to be in the bylaws, otherwise there cannot be something as a "standing Committee of the board".

The curious situation could exist that if there is a bylaw article that creates a single standing board commission, it prohibits others. 

[Josh Martin]

10 minutes ago, Guest Puzzling said:

And otherwise the right of the board to create its own standing Committees needs to be in the bylaws, otherwise there cannot be something as a "standing Committee of the board".

I see nothing in RONR which backs up this claim.

"As a general principle, a board cannot delegate its authority—that is, it cannot empower a subordinate group to act independently in its name—except as may be authorized by the bylaws (of the society) or other instrument under which the board is constituted; but any board can appoint committees to work under its supervision or according to its specific instructions. Such committees of the board always report to the board." RONR (12th ed.) 49:12

If it was the intent of the authors to limit a subordinate board to only create special committees (unless specifically authorized to create standing committees in the bylaws), then it would seem to me this rule would say so.

11 minutes ago, Guest Puzzling said:

The curious situation could exist that if there is a bylaw article that creates a single standing board commission, it prohibits others. 

Yes, I completely agree that if the bylaws create certain standing committees of the board, then no further standing committees of the board may be created. If the bylaws are silent regarding standing committees of the board, however, then standing committees of the board may be created.

"If certain standing committees are enumerated in the bylaws, no standing committee aside from those enumerated can be established without amending the bylaws, unless the bylaws also include a provision authorizing the creation of additional standing committees (see also 56:44–48)." RONR (12th ed.) 50:9

[Richard Brown]

36 minutes ago, Guest Puzzling said:

And otherwise the right of the board to create its own standing Committees needs to be in the bylaws, otherwise there cannot be something as a "standing Committee of the board".

 

22 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

I see nothing in RONR which backs up this claim.

"As a general principle, a board cannot delegate its authority—that is, it cannot empower a subordinate group to act independently in its name—except as may be authorized by the bylaws (of the society) or other instrument under which the board is constituted; but any board can appoint committees to work under its supervision or according to its specific instructions. Such committees of the board always report to the board." RONR (12th ed.) 49:12

If it was the intent of the authors to limit a subordinate board to only create special committees (unless specifically authorized to create standing committees in the bylaws), then it would seem to me this rule would say so.

I agree with Mr. Martin.

[Joshua Katz]

5 hours ago, Guest Puzzling said:

For the sake of discussion I disagree.

 

I am inclined to agree with Mr. Martin, but it seems to me that you haven't really discussed it here. What is your argument?