Motion to Consider the Issue without Debate

[Guest Joyce Cowan]

We are going through Bylaws review and amendment.  It is contentious.  For two years, the majority group has proposed changes and moved for immediate consideration of the changes without debate.  The question is whether such a motion can be at the discretion of the Chair or must the Chair entertain the motion (after debate).  For example, if the Chair believes that it is in the best interests of the society to discuss the proposed changes, can she just set aside the motion for immediate consideration or must she entertain it?

[Joshua Katz]

When a proposal is pending, a motion could be made for the previous question, that is, to proceed right away to a vote with no further debate. I'm not sure if that answers your question, though, because I'm not sure I understand your question.

[Gary Novosielski]

If an issue is contentious, that is ample reason not to try to ram it through without debate.  It will only become more contentious. 

But, in order to advance a question without debate, either through the use or the motion for the Previous Question, or by a motion to Suspend the Rules, it will require a two-thirds vote.  A majority vote simply will not do.

The Chair does not have the power to decide to ignore a properly made and seconded motion. If two-thirds of those present and voting decide to cut off debate, that is their decision, not the chair's.

[Richard Brown]

While I agree with Mr. Katz, a motion to limit or prohibit debate would also be in order. A motion to prohibit debate would probably be tantamount to a motion for the previous question. The motion to limit debate would also require a 2/3 vote.

The chair must entertain any such motion which is otherwise properly made and put it to a vote. he does not have the discretion to decide whether or not to permit such a motion to be considered. 

Edited September 18, 2022 at 01:16 AM by Richard Brown
Typographical correction

[Josh Martin]

On 9/17/2022 at 8:01 PM, Guest Joyce Cowan said:

We are going through Bylaws review and amendment.  It is contentious.  For two years, the majority group has proposed changes and moved for immediate consideration of the changes without debate.  The question is whether such a motion can be at the discretion of the Chair or must the Chair entertain the motion (after debate).  For example, if the Chair believes that it is in the best interests of the society to discuss the proposed changes, can she just set aside the motion for immediate consideration or must she entertain it?

The chair must entertain the motion. The chair cannot refuse to state the question on the motion on the grounds that, in the chair's opinion, the motion is not "in the best interests of the society."

It should be noted, however, that a motion to end debate requires a 2/3 vote for adoption.

[puzzling]

On 9/18/2022 at 2:01 AM, Guest Joyce Cowan said:

We are going through Bylaws review and amendment.  It is contentious.  For two years, the majority group has proposed changes and moved for immediate consideration of the changes without debate.  The question is whether such a motion can be at the discretion of the Chair or must the Chair entertain the motion (after debate).  For example, if the Chair believes that it is in the best interests of the society to discuss the proposed changes, can she just set aside the motion for immediate consideration or must she entertain it?

I agree with all above answers especially 

 

On 9/18/2022 at 2:12 AM, Gary Novosielski said:

If an issue is contentious, that is ample reason not to try to ram it through without debate.  It will only become more contentious. 

But, in order to advance a question without debate, either through the use or the motion for the Previous Question, or by a motion to Suspend the Rules, it will require a two-thirds vote.  A majority vote simply will not do.

just to dot the t's.

I think the motion you need is the subsidiary motion Previous Question (RONR 16) 

this motion is:

- not debatable, (RONR 16:5, 5.

- requires a two-thirds vote for adoption (RONR 16:5, 6)

Using the motion to suspend the rules (RONR 25) feels contorted. although RONR 25:4 gives an example of it , so it must be in order. but also this motion requires a  two-thirds vote.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 9/18/2022 at 5:47 AM, puzzling said:

Using the motion to suspend the rules (RONR 25) feels contorted. although RONR 25:4 gives an example of it , so it must be in order. but aA lso this motion requires a  two-thirds vote.

A motion to Suspend the Rules and Pass something is a way to pass it with no debate at all, not even such debate as might occur before moving the Previous Question.

However, using this to prevent deliberation on a contentious question is singularly inadvisable.

[Richard Brown]

On 9/20/2022 at 1:22 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

A motion to Suspend the Rules and Pass something is a way to pass it with no debate at all, not even such debate as might occur before moving the Previous Question.

I serve as the parliamentarian for two groups whose members utilize this procedure at their conventions quite regularly. One is a national convention with around 1000 delegates and the other one is state convention with a couple of hundred delegates.

The members of both organizations  have learned that the convention is rarely ever able to complete the full order of business and that the best way for a member to get his or her pet motion heard, whether it be a resolution or a bylaw amendment, is sometimes to make the motion to “Suspend the rules and adopt to the motion to do such and such” when no other business is pending.   There is no debate at any point on such a motion and only one up or down vote is taken, which must pass by a 2/3 vote because it involves a suspension of the rules. It is used with great frequency at both of those conventions and can be a terrific way to save time and to give the convention an opportunity to consider your motion. The downside is that your motion will likely not be considered at all unless there is a 2/3 vote in favor of it from the get go.

Edited September 20, 2022 at 07:22 PM by Richard Brown
Typographical correction