Using an agenda

[J. J.]

A society that meets bi-monthly has adopted RONR in its bylaws; the bylaws also permit special meetings.

At the regular March meeting, it has a lot of business.  May the adopt an agenda, and if so, by what vote?  Would the vote requirement change if there were only a specific order for the motions, but not a specified time? 

At the April special meeting, 3 items of business have been properly noticed.  May the adopt an agenda, and if so, by what vote?  Would the vote requirement change if there were only a specific order for the motions, but not a specified time? 

At the August special meeting, 1 item of business has been properly noticed.  May the adopt an agenda, and if so, by what vote?

[Dan Honemann]

On 1/28/2023 at 9:13 PM, J. J. said:

A society that meets bi-monthly has adopted RONR in its bylaws; the bylaws also permit special meetings.

At the regular March meeting, it has a lot of business.  May the adopt an agenda, and if so, by what vote?  Would the vote requirement change if there were only a specific order for the motions, but not a specified time? 

"At a session that already has an order of business, an agenda can be adopted by a majority vote only if it does not create any special orders and does not conflict with the existing order of business; otherwise, a two-thirds vote is required (see also 25:12)."   RONR (12th ed.) 41:61

Doesn't this answer your question?

On 1/28/2023 at 9:13 PM, J. J. said:

At the April special meeting, 3 items of business have been properly noticed.  May the adopt an agenda, and if so, by what vote?  Would the vote requirement change if there were only a specific order for the motions, but not a specified time? 

Since there is no prescribed order of business for a special meeting, an agenda may be adopted by a majority vote even if specific times are set, but, of course, this agenda may include only the 3 items of business that were properly noticed.  

On 1/28/2023 at 9:13 PM, J. J. said:

At the August special meeting, 1 item of business has been properly noticed.  May the adopt an agenda, and if so, by what vote?

Yes, an agenda may be adopted by a majority vote. It will include only the one item of business although it might also, for example, fix the time for a recess or for adjournment.

[J. J.]

Thanks, I had missed the last line of 41:61, which does answer my question.  It does raise two more questions relating to the regular meeting.

The society has that list of motions at the March meeting.  It adopts an agenda for the order of the main motions, but not for the time the will be considered.  It establishes a time for adjournment, 10:45 PM.  Is adjournment now a special order and does it take a 2/3 vote to adopt the agenda?

Conversely, if there is no agenda adopted, the society could adopt an incidental main motion "that the meeting be adjourned at 10:45 PM."  Would that require a 2/3 vote or a majority vote? 

 

[Dan Honemann]

On 1/29/2023 at 9:54 AM, J. J. said:

Thanks, I had missed the last line of 41:61, which does answer my question.  It does raise two more questions relating to the regular meeting.

The society has that list of motions at the March meeting.  It adopts an agenda for the order of the main motions, but not for the time the will be considered.  It establishes a time for adjournment, 10:45 PM.  Is adjournment now a special order and does it take a 2/3 vote to adopt the agenda?

Yes.

On 1/29/2023 at 9:54 AM, J. J. said:

Conversely, if there is no agenda adopted, the society could adopt an incidental main motion "that the meeting be adjourned at 10:45 PM."  Would that require a 2/3 vote or a majority vote? 

A two-thirds vote.

[J. J.]

On 1/29/2023 at 11:12 AM, Dan Honemann said:

Yes.

A two-thirds vote.

Thank you.  I might not have agreed until i read your first answer, but I do agree. 

[Richard Brown]

Interesting and informative questions and answers. Thank you both.

[J. J.]

I think I know the answers, but I'm going to ask the questions anyhow.

The society has set the time for adjournment at 10:45 PM.  At 10:40 PM some of the members wish to continue.  They presumably could Rescind/Amend (ASPA) the motion to adjourn by a 2/3 vote or a vote of the majority of the entire membership (MEM).  Could they also set aside the orders of the day, when the clock strikes 10:45 PM, and then continue the meeting (18:8)?

If they could not muster an MEM or 2/3 vote, could they adopt a motion to Fix the Time to Which To Adjourn for 10:49 PM, i.e. "that when the meeting adjourns, it adjourns until 10:49 PM tonight?"   (It might sound frivolous at first.)

[Dan Honemann]

On 1/29/2023 at 2:40 PM, J. J. said:

I think I know the answers, but I'm going to ask the questions anyhow.

The society has set the time for adjournment at 10:45 PM.  At 10:40 PM some of the members wish to continue.  They presumably could Rescind/Amend (ASPA) the motion to adjourn by a 2/3 vote or a vote of the majority of the entire membership (MEM).  Could they also set aside the orders of the day, when the clock strikes 10:45 PM, and then continue the meeting (18:8)?

Yes, they can set aside the orders of the day if the orders of the day have been called for.  If not, they can proceed as outlined in 41:67

On 1/29/2023 at 2:40 PM, J. J. said:

If they could not muster an MEM or 2/3 vote, could they adopt a motion to Fix the Time to Which To Adjourn for 10:49 PM, i.e. "that when the meeting adjourns, it adjourns until 10:49 PM tonight?"   (It might sound frivolous at first.)

Well, I think the form of the motion as stated here could be better, but as a purely technical matter I do not see why they could not do this.  At the adjourned meeting, the secretary may find it difficult to read the minutes of the preceding meeting for the assembly's approval, but this reading can be dispensed with.  

It should always be kept in mind, however, that whenever a majority wishes to adjourn a meeting it will be able to do so.

[J. J.]

On 1/29/2023 at 4:23 PM, Dan Honemann said:

Well, I think the form of the motion as stated here could be better, but as a purely technical matter I do not see why they could not do this.  At the adjourned meeting, the secretary may find it difficult to read the minutes of the preceding meeting for the assembly's approval, but this reading can be dispensed with.  

It should always be kept in mind, however, that whenever a majority wishes to adjourn a meeting it will be able to do so.

These are good points.

My question  here dealt with the majority wishing to remain in session, but it being unable to muster a 2/3 vote or a vote of the MEM.  I am open to less cumbersome methods of continuing the session than scheduling an adjourned meeting for several minutes in the future. 

[Dan Honemann]

On 1/29/2023 at 4:51 PM, J. J. said:

These are good points.

My question  here dealt with the majority wishing to remain in session, but it being unable to muster a 2/3 vote or a vote of the MEM.  I am open to less cumbersome methods of continuing the session than scheduling an adjourned meeting for several minutes in the future. 

I don't know why you describe scheduling an adjourned meeting for several minutes in the future as being "cumbersome", but, as far as I know, it is the only way it can do what it wants to do.

 

 

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Can they just extend time?

[Dan Honemann]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:22 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

Can they just extend time?

Sure, but J.J. just told you that they cannot muster the requisite vote to do so.

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

On 1/30/2023 at 9:49 AM, Dan Honemann said:

Sure, but J.J. just told you that they cannot muster the requisite vote to do so.

I was speaking generally as a matter of procedure.

[Dan Honemann]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:53 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos said:

I was speaking generally as a matter of procedure.

I'm sure that's quite helpful.  Thank you.  😀