Motion to Rescind and immediate renewal of the rescinded action

[laser158689]

My Town had a close vote on a controversial motion in January.  There were some irregularities with the vote due to the use of a new electronic voting system.  Two motions to rescind the action on that controversial motion appear on the March Call.  (Presumably, if the first passes, the second is out of order.)

Having gotten wind of the motions to rescind, the original controversial motion is also on the March Call.

IF a motion to rescind passes, can the original motion be renewed immediately?  Do the proponents need to wait until the next meeting (April) to renew it?

 

[Atul Kapur]

It sounds like you have a requirement for notice of motion to be provided. Is that correct?

If the first motion to rescind is adopted, then the second one is frivolous and not in order, as there will be nothing left to rescind.

If the first motion to rescind is defeated, then the second one is not in order because the body does not have to decide again on a matter that it has already decided.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 at 08:50 PM by Atul Kapur
Added last sentence

[Gary Novosielski]

On 3/6/2023 at 12:41 PM, laser158689 said:

My Town had a close vote on a controversial motion in January.  There were some irregularities with the vote due to the use of a new electronic voting system.  Two motions to rescind the action on that controversial motion appear on the March Call.  (Presumably, if the first passes, the second is out of order.)

Having gotten wind of the motions to rescind, the original controversial motion is also on the March Call.

IF a motion to rescind passes, can the original motion be renewed immediately?  Do the proponents need to wait until the next meeting (April) to renew it?

 

It depends on what previous notice requirements exist and whether they were complied with.  

But, but, but... if you have the votes to rescind it, then surely you do not have the votes to pass it again.  Unless  a majority the town (council?) is suffering from anterograde amnesia, I don't see how that happens.

[Josh Martin]

On 3/6/2023 at 11:41 AM, laser158689 said:

Two motions to rescind the action on that controversial motion appear on the March Call.  (Presumably, if the first passes, the second is out of order.)

It’s not clear to me why there are two identical motions to rescind included in the call in the first place. I would also suggest that the solution to this problem is simply for no one to make the second motion to rescind.

In any event, however, the second motion to rescind will be out of order after the first motion to rescind has been considered, whether the first motion to rescind is adopted or defeated.

On 3/6/2023 at 11:41 AM, laser158689 said:

IF a motion to rescind passes, can the original motion be renewed immediately?  Do the proponents need to wait until the next meeting (April) to renew it?

So far as RONR is concerned, I believe the motion could be renewed immediately, although this would seem rather pointless unless the motion has been modified in some manner.

Since this appears to be a public body, however, it is very possible that the assembly’s own rules or applicable law will say something on this subject.

[laser158689]

@Atul Kapur Yes, the state of CT open meetings provisions apply, which require an "agenda" published 24hr in advance of any meeting (except for some particular emergencies).  The Town Clerk compiles all of the submitted items into the Call, and we generally deal with them in submitted order.  Thank you for the confirmation on the second motion to rescind.

@Gary Novosielski While I suspect that the motion to rescind is more likely to fail (some folks don't think the electronic voting issues were real + some don't like the idea that "final" votes can be rescinded/amended + those in favor of the original action vs those against the original action + some folks upset about the voting issues), I try to just consider the possibilities, not the likelihoods.  Maybe folks vote to rescind and leave the meeting?  🤷‍♂️

[Bruce Lages]

If a motion to rescind a previously adopted motion is passed, and an attempt to renew the previously adopted (and now rescinded) motion is made at the same meeting, wouldn't that constitute a case of asking the assembly to decide the same question twice in one session? If the assembly wanted the rescinded motion to be in effect, it had the opportunity to do that by voting down the motion to rescind.

[Atul Kapur]

I was holding off on responding to the last part of the OP because I wanted to hear others' thoughts. 

I agree with 

On 3/6/2023 at 2:51 PM, Bruce Lages said:

If a motion to rescind a previously adopted motion is passed, and an attempt to renew the previously adopted (and now rescinded) motion is made at the same meeting, wouldn't that constitute a case of asking the assembly to decide the same question twice in one session? 

and this citation also supports the idea that the fact that it is presented as a renewal of the rescinded motion does not negate the fact that it's the same question

39:6 "motions are also improper when they present practically the same question as a motion previously decided at the same session."

A renewal of the exact motion that was rescinded earlier in the same meeting would clearly "present practically the same question," and should be ruled not in order.

And I agree with @Gary Novosielski on how this would almost certainly play out, practically.

On 3/6/2023 at 2:34 PM, laser158689 said:

Maybe folks vote to rescind and leave the meeting?

They may do so, secure in the protection of 39:6 and 35:2(8) that an affirmative vote to rescind cannot be reconsidered.

The motion could, however, be renewed at a future session.

[laser158689]

Thank you all very much for your input!  This forum provide a tremendous service.