Opposing Motions same Session

[Tomm]

Is it considered a conflicting motion if one motion requests to purchase something but a separate motion requests to not purchase that same item?

Are they permissible in the same session?

The reason I ask is because Members are required to submit motions for the upcoming Annual Membership Meeting. We're wondering if opposing motions as mentioned above would make one motion out of order?

The corporate office will not know what motions will be submitted by the membership prior to the meeting and are wondering how to handle the situation if it should occur. 

How do you make it fair that each Member who submitted their motion gets its fair hearing and presentation?

[Bruce Lages]

Let's just say that a motion to not purchase an item should be ruled out of order. There is no purpose to a motion which, if adopted, doesn't change  anything. You achieve that goal by voting against a motion to purchase said item.

[Gary Novosielski]

In the example you gave, a motion not to purchase something would not be in order, since the same thing can be achieved by by not making any motion.  Voting Yes has the same effect as voting No.  Those who oppose buying the McGuffin could simply vote against buying it when the first motion was pending

But you could well have two conflicting motions, especially where members are submitting independently developed motions.  If this "corporate office" is serving in the role of a Resolutions Committee, they may be able to find a logical order for these motions.  This is especially true if the motions relate to bylaws amendments, where two completely contradictory amendments are proposed.

There is usually a way to order things so that they make sense.  For example, if there is a motion to hire an arborist to prune the pear tree, and another motion to cut the pear tree down, it might make sense to reverse the order of those motions so that we are sure there will be a pear tree to prune before we decide whether to prune it.  In fact, if the motion to fell the tree passes, the motion to prune it could be declared moot, or perhaps amended to have it cut up for firewood.

And of course there's the ever-popular motion to paint the clubhouse red.  If another motion had been offered to paint the clubhouse blue, they could be combined into a single question on whether to paint it, with subsidiary amendments to decide the color.  Or you could simply leave both in place and presume that if one is adopted, the other won't be.

And then there are bona fide cases of a group changing its mind.  That's where the motions Rescind and Amend Something Previously Adopted come into play.  But that usually requires a period of remorse that goes beyond fifteen minutes or so.  If two motions conflict, and the first is adopted and still in effect, a conflicting motion isn't in order except as a rescission or amendment of the first. 

Edited October 25, 2023 at 11:19 PM by Gary Novosielski

[Tomm]

On 10/25/2023 at 4:17 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

But you could well have two conflicting motions,

Thanks. That clears things up.

[Josh Martin]

On 10/25/2023 at 5:41 PM, Tomm said:

Is it considered a conflicting motion if one motion requests to purchase something but a separate motion requests to not purchase that same item?

These motions do seem to "conflict," yes, although I am not certain why this fact matters.

I would also note that generally, a motion to "not purchase" something should generally be avoided.

"A motion whose only effect is to propose that the assembly refrain from doing something should not be offered if the same result can be accomplished by offering no motion at all. It is incorrect, for example, to move “that no response be made” to a request for a contribution to a fund, or “that our delegates be given no instructions,” unless some purpose would be served by adoption of such a motion. This could be the case, for example, if the membership of an organization wishes to make certain that a subordinate body, such as its executive board, will not take such action at a later date, or if the motion expresses an opinion or reason as to why no action should be taken." RONR (12th ed.) 10:11

On 10/25/2023 at 5:41 PM, Tomm said:

Are they permissible in the same session?

I think it depends.

• For starters, as noted above, it is somewhat unclear what the purpose is of a motion to "not purchase" something.
• Ignoring that issue, let us suppose that one of the two conflicting motions is made first. If that motion is defeated, this will not prevent the introduction of the second motion.
• On the other hand, if the first motion is adopted, this will prevent the second motion from being made (unless it is made in the form of a motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted).

On 10/25/2023 at 5:41 PM, Tomm said:

The reason I ask is because Members are required to submit motions for the upcoming Annual Membership Meeting. We're wondering if opposing motions as mentioned above would make one motion out of order?

It may or may not make one of the motions out of order, depending on the parliamentary circumstances at the time. It will not be possible to know in advance that one of these motions would not be in order.

On 10/25/2023 at 5:41 PM, Tomm said:

The corporate office will not know what motions will be submitted by the membership prior to the meeting and are wondering how to handle the situation if it should occur. 

The corporate office has nothing to "handle" in this regard. Any ruling on whether a motion is in order will be made by the presiding officer, when the motion is actually made.

On 10/25/2023 at 5:41 PM, Tomm said:

How do you make it fair that each Member who submitted their motion gets its fair hearing and presentation?

Members may well wish to note in debate that they intend to offer a competing motion if the pending main motion is defeated, and describe that motion's contents. Members could also potentially propose amendments to the main motion in a manner which would convert the pending main motion into the motion they would prefer.