Division of a Resolution

[Elizabeth Haynes]

What is the order for perfecting the "Whereas" clauses and voting on resolutions, when a motion to divide a resolution has been adopted?

The general rule is to perfect the resolution, perfect the "Whereas" clauses and then vote on the entire resolution.  The reason for this procedure is that amendment of the resolution may require amendment of the "Whereas" clauses.  In the case above, it is not possible to know whether or which "whereas" clauses need to be amended until it is known whether each part of the resolution is adopted.  For example, if there are "whereas" clauses that apply only if all parts of the resolution are adopted, failure to adopt one part of the resolution would require amendment or further amendment of the "Whereas clauses". 

[Dan Honemann]

On 11/27/2023 at 12:49 PM, Elizabeth Haynes said:

What is the order for perfecting the "Whereas" clauses and voting on resolutions, when a motion to divide a resolution has been adopted?

The general rule is to perfect the resolution, perfect the "Whereas" clauses and then vote on the entire resolution.  The reason for this procedure is that amendment of the resolution may require amendment of the "Whereas" clauses.  In the case above, it is not possible to know whether or which "whereas" clauses need to be amended until it is known whether each part of the resolution is adopted.  For example, if there are "whereas" clauses that apply only if all parts of the resolution are adopted, failure to adopt one part of the resolution would require amendment or further amendment of the "Whereas clauses". 

Would you care to provide an example of this?  

[Rob Elsman]

My own sense of it is that the division was not the ideal way to go.

I think a better path would have been to amend by substitute. If the resolution, as amended, were adopted, it would be clear whether and what other resolution needed to be introduced. Were the resolution, as amended, rejected, another resolution could be introduced if it posed a substantially different question than the one rejected.

[Dan Honemann]

Ordinarily, the entire preamble would be deemed to be a part of each of the separated resolutions, and treated as such.  However, you are saying that there are parts of the preamble that apply only if all parts of the resolution are adopted, and if this is so, I would think that this would make the motion to adopt the resolutions indivisible.  

[Guest Elizabeth Haynes]

Thanks Dan,

I agree with the solution of including all of the Whereas clauses with each of the divided resolved clauses.  Then for each clause, they can be perfected as is appropriate to the resolved clause.

 

[Rob Elsman]

I don't think this is the "solution" that Mr. Honemann suggested. My impression of his response is that the motion to divide is not in order, in this case; and, the chair should so rule and not admit it.

[Dan Honemann]

On 11/27/2023 at 7:19 PM, Guest Elizabeth Haynes said:

Thanks Dan,

I agree with the solution of including all of the Whereas clauses with each of the divided resolved clauses.  Then for each clause, they can be perfected as is appropriate to the resolved clause.

 

Yes, this is the way to handle the Whereas clauses when multiple resolutions offered by a single motion have been divided for separate consideration and vote as described in 27:10.  

As Mr. Elsman has noted, I have expressed concern about the fact that, as you say, "there are 'whereas' clauses that apply only if all parts of the resolution are adopted".  I am not clear in my own mind as to whether this fact might possibly have some effect on the divisibility of the motion that was made, and so I was seeking an example to refer to in hopes that it might help to clear things up.

But since amendment of the Whereas clauses as each of the separated resolutions is being considered should solve any problem that arises with these clauses, just ignore my musings in regard to the notion that they may have some effect on divisibility.   

  

[Josh Martin]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:49 AM, Elizabeth Haynes said:

What is the order for perfecting the "Whereas" clauses and voting on resolutions, when a motion to divide a resolution has been adopted?

The general rule is to perfect the resolution, perfect the "Whereas" clauses and then vote on the entire resolution.  The reason for this procedure is that amendment of the resolution may require amendment of the "Whereas" clauses.  In the case above, it is not possible to know whether or which "whereas" clauses need to be amended until it is known whether each part of the resolution is adopted.  For example, if there are "whereas" clauses that apply only if all parts of the resolution are adopted, failure to adopt one part of the resolution would require amendment or further amendment of the "Whereas clauses". 

This description raises some questions as to whether Division of the Question is in order to begin with.

"A motion cannot be divided unless each part presents a proper question for the assembly to act upon if none of the other parts is adopted, and unless the effect of adopting all of the parts will be exactly the same—no more, no less—as adoption of the compound main question. Thus, if it is moved to establish a committee and give it instructions, this motion is indivisible because, should the part establishing the committee fail, the part giving the committee instructions would be absurd. Similarly, if a single motion proposes a series of amendments to something previously adopted (35)—existing bylaws, for example—and all of the individual amendments must be made, if any one of them is made, in order for the document being amended to be coherent, then the motion cannot be divided. For the same reason, multiple conforming amendments to a pending motion, as described in 12:15, cannot be divided." RONR (12th ed.) 27:5

To the extent that it can be divided, these sorts of details should be worked out at the time the question is divided.

"The motion to divide must clearly state the manner in which the question is to be divided. While the motion to divide is pending, another member can propose a different division by moving an amendment. If several different proposals are made, they are treated as filling blanks; that is, they are voted on in the order in which they were proposed unless they suggest different numbers of questions, in which case the largest number is voted on first (12:92–113). Usually, however, little formality is involved in dividing a question, and it is arranged by unanimous consent." RONR (12th ed.) 27:4

I am inclined to agree with Mr. Elsman that proposing amendments to the original, undivided resolution is likely a better route than dividing the question, based on the facts presented.

Nonetheless, if the resolution is divided, it must be understood that after Division of the Question has been adopted, there are now two separate resolutions, each with its own "Whereas" clauses, each of which can be perfected separately. The proper order is:

• Debate/Amendment on Resolution A, Resolved Clauses
• Debate/Amendment on Resolution A, Whereas Clauses
• Vote on Resolution A
• Debate/Amendment on Resolution B, Resolved Clauses
• Debate/Amendment on Resolution B, Whereas Clauses
• Vote on Resolution B

As Mr. Honemann has suggested, the simplest manner in which to divide the resolution is to assign the entire preamble to each resolution, and it can thereafter be perfected. The assembly could, however, divide the question in a different manner if desired.

Even better, the assembly may wish to consider whether "Whereas" clauses are necessary for these resolutions at all.

"It is usually inadvisable to attempt to include reasons for a motion's adoption within the motion itself. To do so may encumber the motion and may weigh against its adoption—since some members who approve of the action it proposes may dislike voting for it if it states reasons with which they disagree. When special circumstances make it desirable to include a brief statement of background, the motion should be cast in the form of a resolution, with the background or reasons incorporated in a preamble that is placed before the resolving clauses. A preamble consists of one or more clauses beginning “Whereas,.…” It should be emphasized that neither rule nor custom requires a resolution to have a preamble, and one should not be used merely for the sake of form. In general, the use of a preamble should be limited to cases where it provides little-known information without which the point or the merits of a resolution are likely to be poorly understood, where unusual importance is attached to making certain reasons for an action a matter of record, or the like." RONR (12th ed.) 10:16, emphasis in original

Edited November 28, 2023 at 01:33 PM by Josh Martin

[Dan Honemann]

On 11/28/2023 at 8:27 AM, Josh Martin said:

This description raises some questions as to whether Division of the Question is in order to begin with.

Well, apparently Mr. Martin doesn't want to ignore such musings.  🙂

[Gary Novosielski]

On 11/28/2023 at 8:58 AM, Dan Honemann said:

Well, apparently Mr. Martin doesn't want to ignore such musings.  🙂

Mr. Martin is many things, but an ignorer of musings is not one of them. 😇