Small Organizations Election

[Guest Fredrick]

We have a small board of directors. It’s only six in total. In an upcoming elections of officers can the president cast a vote for himself to break the tie?  The president is not one of the six voting delegates. 

[Rob Elsman]

If the president is not a voting member, he may not vote in any circumstance.

[Guest Fredrick]

Mr.Rob, the current president is normally one of the six voting delegates. He just took over that position with our former president resigning because of personal reasons. We elected another delegate to fill his position as our club’s voting delegate. I know our upcoming election for President will be a 3-3 tie. Just trying to figure the correct way to break a 3-3 tie. Our bylaws states the President will break all ties but I figured that would not apply to the election of President. 

[Rob Elsman]

In a small board such as this one, the presiding officer who is a voting member should vote on all matters, right along with the other members. He should certainly vote for himself if he thinks he is the best person to carry out the duties. 

[Atul Kapur]

On 2/27/2024 at 4:29 PM, Guest Fredrick said:

Our bylaws states the President will break all ties but I figured that would not apply to the election of President. 

Why not? 

The section of your bylaws overrides anything in RONR that conflicts. So the question becomes one of interpreting your bylaws. If they say that the president breaks all ties, presumably this applies to elections.

However, that is an interpretation based on your description. If you want a more specific response, please quote your bylaws exactly.

And please remember that only the organization can definitively interpret its own bylaws. This forum can advise, but the final decision belongs to it.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 2/27/2024 at 4:29 PM, Guest Fredrick said:

Mr.Rob, the current president is normally one of the six voting delegates. He just took over that position with our former president resigning because of personal reasons. We elected another delegate to fill his position as our club’s voting delegate. I know our upcoming election for President will be a 3-3 tie. Just trying to figure the correct way to break a 3-3 tie. Our bylaws states the President will break all ties but I figured that would not apply to the election of President. 

If the six members include the current president, then having a 3-3 tie implies that the president has already voted.  Nobody gets to vote twice. 

A 3-3 tie is a failure to elect, since no candidate achieved a majority.  The remedy is to hold a second ballot (and as many subsequent ballots as necessary) until someone gets a majority.  

[Josh Martin]

On 2/27/2024 at 2:55 PM, Guest Fredrick said:

We have a small board of directors. It’s only six in total. In an upcoming elections of officers can the president cast a vote for himself to break the tie?  The president is not one of the six voting delegates. 

On 2/27/2024 at 3:29 PM, Guest Fredrick said:

Mr.Rob, the current president is normally one of the six voting delegates. He just took over that position with our former president resigning because of personal reasons. We elected another delegate to fill his position as our club’s voting delegate. I know our upcoming election for President will be a 3-3 tie. Just trying to figure the correct way to break a 3-3 tie. Our bylaws states the President will break all ties but I figured that would not apply to the election of President. 

So I'm not entirely clear on whether the President is or is not a board member. I think what I'm getting is that he used to be a member, but he's not a member currently. Which is what counts.

Under normal circumstances, if the President isn't a member, he doesn't get a vote. If he is a member, then he does. In a small board, the President votes along with all the other members, whether there's a tie or not, at least so far as RONR is concerned. See FAQ #1.

We're told, however, that your bylaws provide "Our bylaws states the President will break all ties." If so, then it seems to me "all ties" means "all ties," unless the rule provides otherwise.

Nothing in RONR suggests a member should not vote for himself for office, if that's the concern.

"The rule on abstaining from voting on a question of direct personal interest does not mean that a member should not vote for himself for an office or other position to which members generally are eligible, or should not vote when other members are included with him in a motion. If a member never voted on a question affecting himself, it would be impossible for a society to vote to hold a banquet, or for the majority to prevent a small minority from preferring charges against them and suspending or expelling them (61, 63)." RONR (12th ed.) 45:5

I'd advise your organization eliminate this rule regarding the President breaking all ties, and just make the President a full-fledged member of the board like everyone else, instead of a quasi-member who can only vote in case of a tie.

In the alternative, if the organization insists on keeping this rule, the organization certainly could amend the rule in the future to provide that the President will break all ties except a tie in an election for the office of President. Unless and until the bylaws are amended, however, the organization is obligated to follow its bylaws as they currently exist.

On 2/27/2024 at 3:35 PM, Rob Elsman said:

In a small board such as this one, the presiding officer who is a voting member should vote on all matters, right along with the other members. He should certainly vote for himself if he thinks he is the best person to carry out the duties. 

On 2/27/2024 at 9:43 PM, Gary Novosielski said:

If the six members include the current president, then having a 3-3 tie implies that the president has already voted.  Nobody gets to vote twice. 

A 3-3 tie is a failure to elect, since no candidate achieved a majority.  The remedy is to hold a second ballot (and as many subsequent ballots as necessary) until someone gets a majority.  

I agree with this so far as RONR is concerned, but what I am understanding in this matter is:

• The bylaws provide that the President is not a member of the board.
• However, the bylaws also provide that the President can (and must) break "all ties."

Edited February 28, 2024 at 05:36 PM by Josh Martin

[Gary Novosielski]

On 2/28/2024 at 12:31 PM, Josh Martin said:

I agree with this so far as RONR is concerned, but what I am understanding in this matter is:

• The bylaws provide that the President is not a member of the board.
• However, the bylaws also provide that the President can (and must) break "all ties."

Well, so far we have been told that the president "is not one of the six voting delegates," but then that the president "normally is one of the six voting delegates."  So, if the president is one of the six and the vote is 3-3, then the president has voted to create the tie.  In that case the president would not get a second vote.  Nor would it matter anyway, since voting to break the tie in the affirmative could have been accomplished by not voting in the first place, and voting in the negative would accomplish nothing since the question was already defeated.

If the president had not voted (as would be the practice of the US Senate, say) and has the power to break ties, then the fact that the question is on the election of the president does not change this rule.