Respecting Majority Rule

[Securis]

What happens when an issue is resolved by the majority, it's in the initial process of being executed, but one member refuses to let the debate end. As presiding officer, I can end debate in a meeting by stating the business is resolved were moving on. The very next meeting, the member opens the discussion again despite the majority decision. It's a tantrum. Is there a procedure for preventing the discussion from opening again and again?

[Gary Novosielski]

What was the resolution at the first meeting?  Was the motion adopted or rejected?

If it was adopted, then the member has the right to move to Rescind the motion.  This motion typically requires a second, is debatable, and for adoption requires a higher vote threshold because it changes a previously adopted decision.  It needs:

• A two-thirds vote; or
• A majority vote if previous notice was given; or
• A vote of a majority of the entire membership of the body that is meeting (including absentees)

If it was rejected, then the member has the right to make the motion again at the next meeting.  The usual rules of seconding, debate, etc. apply.

A member does not have the right to just start discussing a motion out of the blue.  He must be recognized by the chair, properly state the motion, the motion must receive a second, and be stated by the chair.  If the motion does not receive a required second, the chair can declare it dead, at least for the remainder of that meeting.

The chair does not have to entertain clearly frivolous or dilatory motions, but does not have the right to refuse to entertain valid motions such as those mentioned above.  Do people keep seconding the motion that this person makes?

[Securis]

The initial motion was adopted by majority, I think 4 to 1, with two members absent. The member in question doesn't usually exercise her right to make motions, out of inexperience with the process. Once her statements begin circling, I usually just move us on to the next item under protest by said member. Her fellow members have become annoyed as these actions make for a disfunctional and time consuming meeting. 

So, what I'm understanding is she has the right to raise the issue at every subsequent meeting. Then it becomes the perogative of the majority to remain silent, let the issue die on the table, then move on. 

[Shmuel Gerber]

On 3/20/2024 at 2:16 PM, Securis said:

As presiding officer, I can end debate in a meeting by stating the business is resolved were moving on.

If the debate is in the form of remarks not related to any pending motion, then yes you can rule such remarks out of order.

You do not have the right to end the debate on a pending motion, nor to refuse recognition to a member attempting to make a motion. 

[Rob Elsman]

Without a motion having been made, a member has no right to engage in debate.  The interval of time within which to make the motion, Reconsider, has expired, so Reconsider is not in order.  If the "process" is too far along (and I cannot be the judge of this on the basis of the information provided), the motion, Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted, is also not in order.

It may well be that the member is out of luck as well as being out of order.

Edited March 20, 2024 at 11:01 PM by Rob Elsman

[Securis]

On 3/20/2024 at 6:57 PM, Shmuel Gerber said:

You do not have the right to end the debate on a pending motion, nor to refuse recognition to a member attempting to make a motion. 

This I understand. If she raises the issue without a motion, then after a few minutes, if no one else wishes to comment or make a motion, I can move forward to the next topic. 

[Rob Elsman]

No, the chair should enforce the rules on his own initiative when he becomes aware that there is a significant violation that is disrupting the transaction of business.

[Securis]

On 3/20/2024 at 7:00 PM, Rob Elsman said:

Without a motion having been made, a member has no right to engage in debate.

We are a small board and very informal but we use RONR for small boards to provide some structure. 

[Rob Elsman]

Yes, tantrums by the disgruntled may require some "structure". 😁

[Gary Novosielski]

On 3/20/2024 at 6:19 PM, Securis said:

So, what I'm understanding is she has the right to raise the issue at every subsequent meeting. Then it becomes the perogative of the majority to remain silent, let the issue die on the table, then move on. 

Essentially yes, except that since the motion was adopted, she would have to use a motion to Rescind, or to Amend Something Previously Adopted, as described earlier.  If seconds are required and there are none, the proper statement of the chair is "The motion dies for lack of a second."  There is no "table" involved in this scenario.

[Josh Martin]

On 3/20/2024 at 1:16 PM, Securis said:

The very next meeting, the member opens the discussion again despite the majority decision. It's a tantrum. Is there a procedure for preventing the discussion from opening again and again?

On 3/20/2024 at 7:32 PM, Securis said:

This I understand. If she raises the issue without a motion, then after a few minutes, if no one else wishes to comment or make a motion, I can move forward to the next topic. 

As I understand the facts:

• This is a small board, operating under the small board rules, and members are free to raise matters while no motion is pending.
• A member continues to raise a particular matter again at each meeting, but does not make any motion on the subject.

So under these circumstances, you can in fact rule the member's comments out of order.

"In debate, a member cannot reflect adversely on any prior act of the society that is not then pending, unless a motion to reconsider, rescind, or amend it is pending, or unless he intends to conclude his remarks by making or giving notice of one of these motions." RONR (12th ed.) 43:24

So yes, I suppose in this particular instance, you can indeed "move on" unless a member makes a motion on this matter.

If the member ever actually does make a motion to Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted, you can't insist on your own that the assembly "move on," but the assembly could end debate by a 2/3 vote.

Edited March 22, 2024 at 04:03 PM by Josh Martin