Questions on voting and meeting minutes

[Guest james.dawson@snhu.edu]

Good Day All:

I have encountered two problems in the non-profit organization I belong to. The organization belongs to a nationwide organization. 

Is it proper to allow a member of the national organization (not your particular sub organization) to sign meeting minutes. I know this is weird, but it happened. 

The second one is just as strange. The person who is the senior member of my organization is bound by our by-laws to gather nominations for various positions within the organization, send out nomination ballots to all members and then have election ballots out to all members. One position did not come up for nominations. What happens to the position if no one is nominated?

 

Thanks All

Jim Dawson

[Rob Elsman]

Ordinarily, the secretary of the assembly that is approving the minutes of its meeting is the proper person to sign, submit and read the minutes before the assembly approves them.

[Rob Elsman]

If secret ballots are used as the method of voting during the election, blank ballots can be used, and voters may vote for their choices by writing in the names. This may result in multiple rounds of voting.

[Joshua Katz]

Agreeing with both of Mr. Elsman's points:

RONR contains no rule saying that the secretary must be a member of the body, so long as the body desires someone else and the organization has no rules on the subject. So a non-member (regardless what else they are a member of) could be the secretary and sign the minutes. Is that the scenario you have in mind?

 

[Casey239]

James - our church women's group had a similar situation with our elections.    Neither the nomination committee nor a floor vote could bring up nominees for the office of President-Elect.  All other positions were filled.  As far as I know, the position doesn't go away.  There is always hope that someone will step up.   In the meantime, we are punting by rotating our Board members to fill the gap as needed. 

[Rob Elsman]

Dr. Stackpole used to say that societies need not be forever. It may just be that this society has reached its natural end.

[Casey239]

Mr. Elsman - You may be right; it's entirely possible that our group has reached its natural end.   We will go down fighting though!   This group has survived for 33 years, through 9/11 and through Covid.   It will eventually morph into another form, but I am sure it will persist.

[Richard Brown]

On 4/17/2024 at 5:36 PM, Guest james.dawson@snhu.edu said:

One position did not come up for nominations. What happens to the position if no one is nominated?

Can you explain what you mean by the statement above that one position did not come up for nominations? Please elaborate. What that position simply overlooked? It came up, but no one got nominated? We need a bit more information. Unless your bylaws provide otherwise, nominations can always be made from the floor and names can be written in on the ballot without having been formally nominated.  If no one gets selected at the election meeting, you have an incomplete election, and that position should be filled as quickly as possible.

[Rob Elsman]

Maybe the story, The Little Red Hen, would be of some help.

[Josh Martin]

On 4/17/2024 at 5:36 PM, Guest james.dawson@snhu.edu said:

Is it proper to allow a member of the national organization (not your particular sub organization) to sign meeting minutes. I know this is weird, but it happened. 

I don't think I fully understand the scenario or the question.

There is certainly no rule requiring anyone other than the Secretary to sign the minutes. I suppose it is not improper for other persons to sign the minutes, if the organization wishes.

On 4/17/2024 at 5:36 PM, Guest james.dawson@snhu.edu said:

The second one is just as strange. The person who is the senior member of my organization is bound by our by-laws to gather nominations for various positions within the organization, send out nomination ballots to all members and then have election ballots out to all members. One position did not come up for nominations. What happens to the position if no one is nominated?

Oh, that's not strange at all. It happens all the time.

If no one is nominated for the position, then write-in votes are still in order. If no one is elected to the position, then depending on how the term of office is defined in the bylaws, either 1.) the person currently in the office will continue to serve until the election can be completed at a later time or 2.) the position will remain vacant until the election can be completed at a later time.

[Casey239]

Josh- Really? I'll use my situation= no one was in that office of president-elect for the last 2 years and now with a new election which we just held, no one stepped up for the position of president elect for this term either.  We have an executive committee and rest of commissions are full.  

In your #2 scenario, the "the position will remain vacant until election can be completed at a later time."   So the election should not have been held and completed ?   I read your response as stating that the group should have delayed the election until we found a president elect.   If that is the correct reading, then it seems that all the other commissions would suffer as would the membership.   ??

Last year, we changed our bylaws to lessen the time as president elect.  It was 2 years as president elect followed by 2 years as president.  No one has the time to do this anymore.  We changed it to 2 years total, 1 as president elect, 1 as president.  That  makes the work of the nominating committee more difficult as its nearly constant, but still no takers, no floor votes, no interest.  

[Joshua Katz]

On 4/18/2024 at 3:13 PM, Casey239 said:

So the election should not have been held and completed ?  

It is correct to hold the election. But if the election does not result in a person being elected, it has, as a matter of fact (is, not ought) not been completed.

[Josh Martin]

On 4/18/2024 at 5:13 PM, Casey239 said:

I'll use my situation= no one was in that office of president-elect for the last 2 years and now with a new election which we just held, no one stepped up for the position of president elect for this term either.

Since this is a persistent problem, your organization might wish to consider whether to amend the bylaws to remove this position.

On 4/18/2024 at 5:13 PM, Casey239 said:

So the election should not have been held and completed ? 

No, the election must still be held. But the election isn't "completed." An election isn't complete until you elect someone.

I think we are perhaps speaking past each other. I believe you are using the term "election" to refer collectively to electing all of the officers. I am using the term "election" to refer individually to the election of a particular officer.

On 4/18/2024 at 5:13 PM, Casey239 said:

I read your response as stating that the group should have delayed the election until we found a president elect. If that is the correct reading, then it seems that all the other commissions would suffer as would the membership.   ??

No, that's not what I'm saying. I apologize for any lack of clarity.

When I referred to "the election," I was referring solely to the election for the office for which no person is elected (in your case, the office of President-Elect). The elections for all of the other offices are unaffected. The assembly can and should complete those elections.

With respect to the office where there are no volunteers, the assembly should still attempt to hold that election. If no one is elected, however, that election is incomplete. As a result, that office - and that office only - will remain vacant until the assembly completes the election and elects someone to that office.

Because, however, this office has now been vacant for over two years, the organization may want to take a closer look at amending the qualifications and duties of this position, or even amending the bylaws and just getting rid of the position.

Edited April 19, 2024 at 12:54 PM by Josh Martin

[Casey239]

Mr. Martin  - thank you for clarifying your position.  I appreciate the time you took to reply and sift through the "election" process.

One of my responsibilities as Parliamentarian is to work with a committee of 4 to review and rewrite the bylaws as needed.  We will have to look at the President Elect and the terms of office.   This org was founded in 1991, a totally different generation and culture.  I can foresee a few changes....