Motion modifications - who makes them?

[Guest Chris Rasmussen]

I found on the Summary of Roberts Rules at http://www.robertsrules.org/ this text:

Before the motion is stated by the Chair (the question) members may suggest modification of the motion; the mover can modify as he pleases, or even withdraw the motion without consent of the seconder; if mover modifies, the seconder can withdraw the second.

However, I cannot find this in the full text anywhere.

I am under the impression that if I make a motion, I am the only one who can modify it, otherwise I can either withdraw it, or it can go to vote as is. Am I mistaken? What would be the point of making a motion if it was a free-for-all and others could change it at will?

Thanks,

RRO newbie

[David A Foulkes]

I found on the Summary of Roberts Rules at http://www.robertsrules.org/ this text:

Before the motion is stated by the Chair (the question) members may suggest modification of the motion; the mover can modify as he pleases, or even withdraw the motion without consent of the seconder; if mover modifies, the seconder can withdraw the second.

However, I cannot find this in the full text anywhere.

I am under the impression that if I make a motion, I am the only one who can modify it, otherwise I can either withdraw it, or it can go to vote as is. Am I mistaken? What would be the point of making a motion if it was a free-for-all and others could change it at will?

Thanks,

RRO newbie

By full text I assume you mean Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 10th Edition, which if you aren't looking at, most likely you're in the wrong place.

Start on Page 38 line 17, and read on. That should answer most (if not all) of your questions.

Also, the version on that website is from 1915, so the rules have changed a wee tad since then.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

I am under the impression that if I make a motion, I am the only one who can modify it.

No way.

Once the chair states the motion, and opens up the floor for debate, the motion "belongs" to the whole assembly.

The motion is no longer the private property of the mover.

[David A Foulkes]

I found on the Summary of Roberts Rules at http://www.robertsrules.org/ this text:

Before the motion is stated by the Chair .....

No way.

Once the chair states the motion, and opens up the floor for debate, the motion "belongs" to the whole assembly.

The motion is no longer the private property of the mover.

Yeah, but.......

[hmtcastle]

What would be the point of making a motion if it was a free-for-all and others could change it at will?

A motion is just a suggestion. For example, "I move the the clubhouse be painted blue". Someone thinks the motion is worth considering so he seconds it. The motion is debated, Someone thinks painting the clubhouse is a good idea but he proposes changing "blue" to "red". That proposal is debated. Eventually you vote on the main motion, however amended (changed) it might have been.

This process is known as perfecting the motion. The maker of the motion can't offer it on a "take-it-or-leave-it" basis. That's not how a deliberative assembly works.

[Guest Chris Rasmussen]

A motion is just a suggestion. For example, "I move the the clubhouse be painted blue". Someone thinks the motion is worth considering so he seconds it. The motion is debated, Someone thinks painting the clubhouse is a good idea but he proposes changing "blue" to "red". That proposal is debated. Eventually you vote on the main motion, however amended (changed) it might have been.

This process is known as perfecting the motion. The maker of the motion can't offer it on a "take-it-or-leave-it" basis. That's not how a deliberative assembly works.

I guess my issue is - how is it decided when it can go to vote if everyone is disagreeing about the wording of the motion? The motion maker has no role after making the motion?

thanks!

[hmtcastle]

I guess my issue is - how is it decided when it can go to vote if everyone is disagreeing about the wording of the motion? The motion maker has no role after making the motion?

But not everyone is disagreeing.

The idea is that, through the process of debate and amendment, a motion will emerge that a majority of the members can support. If two-thirds think that there has been enough debate and it's time for a vote, see FAQ #11.

[David A Foulkes]

I guess my issue is - how is it decided when it can go to vote if everyone is disagreeing about the wording of the motion? The motion maker has no role after making the motion?

thanks!

Chris, there's actually two subtle phases involved here. After you make the motion to paint the barn red, and I second it, Mr. Mountcastle gains the floor (properly) and says "I wonder if the member would consider painting the barn blue, since we have lots of extra blue paint we won't have to buy." Now, at this point, you can say "Okay, let's change it to blue", or "No thanks." If you say "Okay", then I can withdraw my second, but Mr. Mountcastle has effectively seconded "your" motion to paint the barn blue, so on we go. If you say "No thanks", then it's back to red.

At some point, the Chair will state the question (once any of this preliminary changing is finished), "The question is to paint the barn red (or blue)." He then recognizes you as the maker to speak first in debate.

At that point, when the Chair states the question, it belongs to the assembly - all members in the room. Your work here is done. And if one of them wants to move to amend the motion to paint the barn green, you no longer have any say in it. You no longer own the motion. Now there is a vote on whether to change it to green. Lets say it passes. The question (not your question) is now to paint the barn green. Debate continues on that question until no one wants to say anything else, or has exhausted their rights to speak. (Could be another amendment along the way, or two, but we'll cut to it.)

The Chair makes sure debate is germane, and handled properly (limits of time of speech, number of speeches, etc to avoid the "everyone disagreeing" getting in the way too much) and with any luck this debate gets to a point where everyone (or at least a majority) is happy enough with the wording that they can move on to the vote.

[Rob Elsman]

I think you would enjoy reading Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised in Brief (RONRIB), which gives a full description of the deliberative process in "layman's terms".

[Josh Martin]

And if one of them wants to move to amend the motion to paint the barn green, you no longer have any say in it.

Well, no more or less say than any other member.

[David A Foulkes]

I am under the impression that if I make a motion, I am the only one who can modify it...

Well, no more or less say than any other member.

No certainly not. I was simply trying to clarify for Chris that, as the maker of the motion, his ability to "control" "his" motion ends when the Chair states the question.

[Dan Honemann]

Mr. Rasmussen is correct, the maker of a motion is the only person who can modify it.

[David A Foulkes]

Mr. Rasmussen is correct, the maker of a motion is the only person who can modify it.

I'm a sucker for this sort of thing, as is well known I'm sure.

SooooOOOOooo..... everyone else can amend the...motion?

(I'm trying to determine if the hair-splitting is over the word modify vs amend, or motion vs question. Hang on, I'm crawling out that limb..... almost there.....)

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(edit 5:31pm)

OOOOOhhhhhhhhhhh....... now I get it. Never mind.

(scratchy sound of me crawling back in from the limb.....)

[SaintCad]

It sounds like the OP is talking about a friendly amendment. p 154 like "I move we should paint the clubhouse." "Cool. We have a bunch of blue paint left over. We should paint it blue." "All right, I move we paint the clubhouse blue."

But as RONR states, a friendly amendment is an amendment so if you move to paint the clubhouse and someone else says it should be blue because of all of the extra blue paint, the correct process would be for the chair to make sure the original motion is in order (properly seconded, etc.) then state the question and then the amendment, then vote on the amendment then the original question as amended or not depending on the vote.

You also asked what's the point of making motions if they cam be changed. Remember that RONR applies to deliberative bodies which means all of you should be sharing ideas and the assembly decides on which ideas to keep.