Guest Valerie Posted May 12, 2017 at 03:35 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 at 03:35 PM Our Association bylaws state that the president "shall appoint all committees" (We have a rogue chairperson just adding individuals). There are no exceptions stated in the bylaws. RONR (11th ed). XVI p. 495 Whenever it is stated in the bylaws (with or without the proper exceptions just noted) that the president “shall appoint all committees,” this means that the president shall select the persons to serve on such committees, as the bylaws prescribe to be established or the assembly may direct to be appointed; it doesn’t not mean that the president can himself decide to appoint and assign a task to a group thereby give it the status of a committee of the society. I am confused as to what "or the assembly may direct to be appointed" means. Also, just want to say thanks for your forum, your information, and taking the time to assist those of us who are trying to learn this complicated process. Valerie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valerie Posted May 12, 2017 at 03:37 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 at 03:37 PM The line numbers did not show up 29-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted May 12, 2017 at 03:42 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 at 03:42 PM 4 minutes ago, Guest Valerie said: Our Association bylaws state that the president "shall appoint all committees" (We have a rogue chairperson just adding individuals). There are no exceptions stated in the bylaws. RONR (11th ed). XVI p. 495 Whenever it is stated in the bylaws (with or without the proper exceptions just noted) that the president “shall appoint all committees,” this means that the president shall select the persons to serve on such committees, as the bylaws prescribe to be established or the assembly may direct to be appointed; it doesn’t not mean that the president can himself decide to appoint and assign a task to a group thereby give it the status of a committee of the society. I am confused as to what "or the assembly may direct to be appointed" means. Also, just want to say thanks for your forum, your information, and taking the time to assist those of us who are trying to learn this complicated process. Valerie The most common example is when an assembly decides a special committee should consider a matter that falls outside of the scope of what your standing committees are assigned to do, and the assembly then creates said committee by adopting a motion to do so. The President shall then appoint the members. He can't create a committee by himself however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valerie Posted May 12, 2017 at 03:47 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 at 03:47 PM 4 minutes ago, George Mervosh said: The most common example is when an assembly decides a special committee should consider a matter that falls outside of the scope of what your standing committees are assigned to do, and the assembly then creates said committee by adopting a motion to do so. The President shall then appoint the members. He can't create a committee by himself however. Thank you George. Our president had to resign and that moved the vice president to the presidential position. Does the same committee remain in place with the same chairperson? I am guessing the answer is yes. Valerie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted May 12, 2017 at 03:54 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 at 03:54 PM 4 minutes ago, Guest Valerie said: Thank you George. Our president had to resign and that moved the vice president to the presidential position. Does the same committee remain in place with the same chairperson? I am guessing the answer is yes. Valerie Yes, unless your current president decides to make a change. "Unless the bylaws or other governing rules provide otherwise (see pp. 497, 653), the appointing authority has the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has the power to remove or replace a member so appointed; but if the assembly has the power of selection, removal or replacement can take place only under rules applicable to the motions to Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted (see p. 497). Committee members are presumed to serve until their successors are appointed. " RONR (11th ed.), p. 177. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valerie Posted May 12, 2017 at 04:13 PM Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 at 04:13 PM Great. Thanks so much. I am learning. This is so confusing. I really do appreciate your help. You are awesome Valerie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valerie Posted May 13, 2017 at 07:32 PM Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 at 07:32 PM HELPPP. I am so frustrated. The group I am working with insists that the committee chair can just add anyone at any time. I don't know how to explain it any other way than to quote the RONR lines in this thread. They say that all of this only applies to the creation of a committee (appointing a committee) and NOT adding new members. Am I wrong here and they just CAN add new members without the president approval? I just want to pound my head against the wall. "Committees, not members. The committee was appointed already. It does not discuss the addition of members, Valerie." this is the argument they are given me and the other BOD members who do not agree with the appointment of the new member without following procedure. Again, our bylaws say the president appoints and the committees are under full authority of the BOD. Thanks - Valerie who is getting a big bruise on her head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Who's Coming to Dinner Posted May 13, 2017 at 07:46 PM Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 at 07:46 PM The meaning of your bylaws is up to your organization to determine, Bruised One. Raise a point of order at the next board/organization meeting that the additional member appointments are invalid and let the chair rule, possibly followed by an appeal and majority vote to settle the question. Backward though it may be, if the majority of your peers believe that the committee chair may add members at any time, that will be the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valerie Posted May 13, 2017 at 08:20 PM Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 at 08:20 PM OK. This crap is a nightmare. The president believes the appointment is invalid. There is no problem with the individual appointed, it is just the process. Many of the BOD feel cheated that the committee chair did not discuss the appointment with the entire BOD. It feel like I am running in circles. A classic example of a little knowledge creates more questions. If the president has the power to remove people, then can they just remove this person and won't we end up in the same position? This has come down to not such a matter of picking battles, it has come down to the fact that the group of people who have appointed this person are continuously thwarting the bylaws as well as Robert's Rules. One person got a few certificates from the Association of Parliamentarians and has now become the resident know-it-all. I have no training except what I have learned here by reading and studying. Valerie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted May 13, 2017 at 10:32 PM Report Share Posted May 13, 2017 at 10:32 PM (edited) The people who are saying that a committee chairman can add members to the committee are wrong unless you have a bylaw provision or special rule of order authorizing it. RONR is quite clear. If the president has the authority to appoint a committee, that means appointing the members of the committee. He can make the initial appointments, he can make additional appointments, he can remove people and he can replace people. A committee chairman does not have authority to do any of that unless your bylaws or special rules of order (or the motion creating the committee) specifically give committee chairmen that Authority. I'm curious as to these certificates that one of your members has obtained from an association of parliamentarians. Can you elaborate? Did that board member simply attend a workshop? Is he a member of either NAP or AIP? Edited May 13, 2017 at 10:37 PM by Richard Brown Added clause in parentheses in the second paragraph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 14, 2017 at 01:45 AM Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 at 01:45 AM (edited) Establishing or creating a committee brings it into existence. Appointing a committee assigns its members. If a committee has already been appointed, then by definition it contains all its members. Chairmen of committees have no authority to add or remove members unless this power was explicitly included when the committee was established. The appointing authority normally resides outside the committee membership. Edited May 14, 2017 at 02:45 AM by Gary Novosielski spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 14, 2017 at 04:12 AM Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 at 04:12 AM On 5/12/2017 at 11:35 AM, Guest Valerie said: I am confused as to what "or the assembly may direct to be appointed" means. It means "or the assembly may direct (by means of adopting a motion to that effect) to be appointed". It means that the assembly decides to create (establish) a committee, which is then appointed (filled) by the appointing authority, in this case the president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted May 14, 2017 at 02:21 PM Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 at 02:21 PM 17 hours ago, Guest Valerie said: OK. This crap is a nightmare. The president believes the appointment is invalid. There is no problem with the individual appointed, it is just the process. Many of the BOD feel cheated that the committee chair did not discuss the appointment with the entire BOD. It feel like I am running in circles. A classic example of a little knowledge creates more questions. If the president has the power to remove people, then can they just remove this person and won't we end up in the same position? This has come down to not such a matter of picking battles, it has come down to the fact that the group of people who have appointed this person are continuously thwarting the bylaws as well as Robert's Rules. One person got a few certificates from the Association of Parliamentarians and has now become the resident know-it-all. I have no training except what I have learned here by reading and studying. Valerie First, please don't use the word "crap" on the forum. Second, it sounds like the president may just have to remove all the members of this committee and start over with a less roguish group of appointees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Who's Coming to Dinner Posted May 15, 2017 at 12:07 AM Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 at 12:07 AM On 5/13/2017 at 1:20 PM, Guest Valerie said: t has come down to the fact that the group of people who have appointed this person are continuously thwarting the bylaws as well as Robert's Rules. Only if you let them. The remedy is to raise a point of order, obtain a ruling by the chair or by the assembly on appeal, and then enforce it. Members who violate the ruling should be disciplined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stu Posted June 8, 2017 at 04:41 PM Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 at 04:41 PM Can a member of a committee to bring someone up for a vote vote no or do they have to vote yes since they are on the committee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted June 8, 2017 at 06:38 PM Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 at 06:38 PM He can vote no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts