Guest fpvfd Posted February 25, 2011 at 09:14 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 at 09:14 PM If we have already voted on something and we would like to change the way the vote is to be carried out then how do we go about this and where can I find this information on changing a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted February 25, 2011 at 09:31 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 at 09:31 PM If we have already voted on something and we would like to change the way the vote is to be carried out then how do we go about this and where can I find this information on changing a vote.Take a look at Division of the Assembly, RONR (10th ed.), §29, pp. 270ff, and Motions Relating to Methods of Voting and the Polls, §30, pp. 273ff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry4000 Posted February 25, 2011 at 09:42 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 at 09:42 PM Take a look at Division of the Assembly, RONR (10th ed.), §29, pp. 270ff, and Motions Relating to Methods of Voting and the Polls, §30, pp. 273ff.Depending on when the issue has come up, it may be a motion to amend/rescind something already adopted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted February 25, 2011 at 09:49 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 at 09:49 PM "How the vote is to be carried out" could refer to the method of voting, or the effect of adopting the motion, or...What's your question specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted February 25, 2011 at 09:54 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 at 09:54 PM If we have already voted on something and we would like to change the way the vote is to be carried out then how do we go about this and where can I find this information on changing a vote.If you have already finished voted on something, you're done. The motion was either adopted or not. (Unless you're reading this within a meeting, and the vote happened just now.)If you act quickly (before another motion is stated by the chair), it is in order to move to hold the vote by a different method. See the sections Mr. Elsman suggested. But it would be even better to make the appropriate motion BEFORE voting begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted February 25, 2011 at 10:03 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 at 10:03 PM If you have already voted on something, you're done. The motion was either adopted or not. (Unless you're reading this within a meeting, and the vote hasn't been announced yet.)But before the final results are announced by the chair, it is in order to move to hold the vote by a different method. See the sections Mr. Elsman suggested. It would be even better to make the appropriate motion BEFORE voting begins, though.You might want to re-read RONR (10th ed.), p. 273, ll. 26-28. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted February 25, 2011 at 10:10 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 at 10:10 PM You might want to re-read RONR (10th ed.), p. 273, ll. 26-28.Yeah, I guess I should've. I'll fix my reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted February 25, 2011 at 11:52 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 at 11:52 PM You might want to re-read RONR (10th ed.), p. 273, ll. 26-28.As I read this citation, I'm left thinking that after a vote with the results announced followed by a new motion which is seconded but before the chair states this next (new) question, a new vote can be taken on the previously voted on question. Am I reading that right?If so, lines 34-36 seem to contradict this, unless this line means you can't move to take another vote on the same question before the chair announces the results on it. You have to wait until..... at least up to the moment another motion is made but before the chair states the next question. Goes without saying, I'm confused. What am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Schafer Posted February 26, 2011 at 01:03 AM Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 at 01:03 AM You might want to re-read RONR (10th ed.), p. 273, ll. 26-28.As I read this citation, I'm left thinking that after a vote with the results announced followed by a new motion which is seconded but before the chair states this next (new) question, a new vote can be taken on the previously voted on question. Am I reading that right?That seems correct to me.If so, lines 34-36 seem to contradict this, unless this line means you can't move to take another vote on the same question before the chair announces the results on it. You have to wait until..... at least up to the moment another motion is made but before the chair states the next question. Goes without saying, I'm confused. What am I missing here?RONR (10th ed.), section 30 (p. 273-275) relates to voting using methods other than a voice vote or a Division (p. 273, l. 11-13). Based on that, I interpret lines 33-35 on page 273 that a motion for a vote by a method other than voice or Division is not in order when the question has already been voted on by a method other than voice or Division. You get an opportunity to ask for one of those other methods by amending a pending motion for a voting method (usually handled as filling blanks, as noted on p. 274, l. 19-23). I don't think that l. 33-35 speak to a restriction on timing for the motion. The timing restriction is listed in l. 26-28, as you and Mr. Elsman noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted February 26, 2011 at 03:02 AM Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 at 03:02 AM Depending on when the issue has come up, it may be a motion to amend/rescind something already adopted.I think you're right. Based on the wording, this seems to be based on an event which has already happened. It does not seem to be a hypothetical question. Another possibility is that the motion was defeated, so simply renewing the motion may be appropriate.If we have already voted on something and we would like to change the way the vote is to be carried out then how do we go about this and where can I find this information on changing a vote.I think we need some additional clarity on what exactly happened and what you're trying to do. What happened to the "something" the first time around and when did it happen? Is it truly the vote that you wish to change or is it the motion (or the outcome of the motion)? Also, just to cover all our bases, what is the "something?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted February 26, 2011 at 03:34 AM Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 at 03:34 AM ....Cleared it up for me. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted February 26, 2011 at 07:46 PM Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 at 07:46 PM As I read this citation, I'm left thinking that after a vote with the results announced followed by a new motion which is seconded but before the chair states this next (new) question, a new vote can be taken on the previously voted on question. Am I reading that right?If so, lines 34-36 seem to contradict this, unless this line means you can't move to take another vote on the same question before the chair announces the results on it. You have to wait until..... at least up to the moment another motion is made but before the chair states the next question. Goes without saying, I'm confused. What am I missing here?A Motion Relating to Methods of Voting, applied to a question on which the vote has just been taken, is in order after the result of the vote has been announced and until the chair has stated the question on another motion, RONR (10th ed.), p. 275, ll. 26-28. For example, if a vote on a motion has been taken by a voice vote, a member can obtain the floor after the chair has announced the result and move that the vote be taken by a counted rising vote.Lines 33-35 (not 34-36, as in the reply) mean that another Motion Relating to Methods of Voting is not in order after the assembly has already taken a vote under a previously-adopted Motion Related to Methods of Voting on the same question. Thus, if, as in the example above, the assembly has adopted the motion to take the vote by a counted rising vote, it is not in order after the vote to move to take the vote on the same question by secret ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted February 26, 2011 at 08:37 PM Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 at 08:37 PM Okay, so in other words, you get one chance at "re-voting", and can't keep calling for a new vote (by a different method) until you run out of methods. Makes sense. But as I understand line 12, you can only do this if the first vote was by voice or Division. So if the first vote is by ballot, you can not make a motion for another round of voting by a roll call, for example. Sound about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted February 26, 2011 at 08:44 PM Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 at 08:44 PM Okay, so in other words, you get one chance at "re-voting", and can't keep calling for a new vote (by a different method) until you run out of methods. Makes sense. But as I understand line 12, you can only do this if the first vote was by voice or Division. So if the first vote is by ballot, you can not make a motion for another round of voting by a roll call, for example. Sound about right?If the president took a counted rising vote on his own initiative, it is still in order to move to take the vote by secret ballot or roll call vote. It is not in order, in my opinion, to move to take the vote by counted rising vote or roll call vote after it has been taken by secret ballot, since this would violate the basic right of an individual member to the secrecy of his vote, RONR (10th ed.), p. 255. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted February 26, 2011 at 08:47 PM Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 at 08:47 PM Sorry. Shouldn't have used those to methods. Still, it reads to me that this option (motion to re-vote) is only available if the first vote was voice or Division. You don't see it that way, I gather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted February 26, 2011 at 08:49 PM Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 at 08:49 PM Sorry. Shouldn't have used those to methods. Still, it reads to me that this option (motion to re-vote) is only available if the first vote was voice or Division. You don't see it that way, I gather.Nope. And you shouldn't, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted February 26, 2011 at 09:48 PM Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 at 09:48 PM Once a vote has been taken by a method ordered by the assembly, the assembly cannot order that it be taken again by some other method.If a vote has been taken by one of the regular methods of voting (voice, show of hands, or division) or by a division vote which has been counted by the chair on his own initiative, the assembly (within prescribed time limits) may order that the vote be retaken by one of the methods of voting other than one of the regular methods, or it can order that an uncounted vote be counted. If a vote has been taken by ballot (signed or not), or by roll call, or by any other means ordered by the assembly (including a counted rising vote ordered by the assembly), the vote cannot be retaken by any other means, since it has already been taken by a method ordered by the assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted February 27, 2011 at 12:55 AM Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 at 12:55 AM Once a vote has been taken by a method ordered by the assembly, the assembly cannot order that it be taken again by some other method.And this really makes clear my confusion, and it makes perfect sense. Thank you, and my apologies for the null and void in my brain today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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