bigdaddy Posted August 25, 2011 at 02:26 AM Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 at 02:26 AM I am a recording secretary for a local club. At our last meeting, a motion was approved to cover costs for the board officers to attend training. 10 minutes later, a member had located some information indicating that the training was actually free of charge, provided by the leadership of our local province. The chair then indicated to me that the motion was thereby nullified by this new information.My question: since the motion was nullified, then is it stricken from the record since it was never valid in the first place? In my opinion, it does not belong in the minutes since the subject was ultimately insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted August 25, 2011 at 02:37 AM Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 at 02:37 AM I am a recording secretary for a local club. At our last meeting, a motion was approved to cover costs for the board officers to attend training. 10 minutes later, a member had located some information indicating that the training was actually free of charge, provided by the leadership of our local province. The chair then indicated to me that the motion was thereby nullified by this new information.My question: since the motion was nullified, then is it stricken from the record since it was never valid in the first place? In my opinion, it does not belong in the minutes since the subject was ultimately insignificant.Nothing in RONR supports the Chair's claim that the motion is nullified based on the new information. The motion is still valid and the $0 that it costs for the Board members to attend the training is to be covered by the organization. If you all really want to do away with the motion you could adopt a motion to Rescind (RONR pp. 293-299). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Cisar Posted August 25, 2011 at 02:37 AM Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 at 02:37 AM I am a recording secretary for a local club. At our last meeting, a motion was approved to cover costs for the board officers to attend training. 10 minutes later, a member had located some information indicating that the training was actually free of charge, provided by the leadership of our local province. The chair then indicated to me that the motion was thereby nullified by this new information.My question: since the motion was nullified, then is it stricken from the record since it was never valid in the first place? In my opinion, it does not belong in the minutes since the subject was ultimately insignificant.It goes in the minutes as it was an action taken by the club. The fact that the cost is zero does not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigdaddy Posted August 25, 2011 at 11:34 AM Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 at 11:34 AM Nothing in RONR supports the Chair's claim that the motion is nullified based on the new information. The motion is still valid and the $0 that it costs for the Board members to attend the training is to be covered by the organization. If you all really want to do away with the motion you could adopt a motion to Rescind (RONR pp. 293-299).Thank you for the information. To clarify your information so that I can be prepared in future meetings: was the Chair in error by declaring the motion nullified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted August 25, 2011 at 11:37 AM Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 at 11:37 AM Thank you for the information. To clarify your information so that I can be prepared in future meetings: was the Chair in error by declaring the motion nullified?Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert B Fish Posted August 25, 2011 at 12:21 PM Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 at 12:21 PM Nothing in RONR supports the Chair's claim that the motion is nullified based on the new information. The motion is still valid and the $0 that it costs for the Board members to attend the training is to be covered by the organization. If you all really want to do away with the motion you could adopt a motion to Rescind (RONR pp. 293-299).You are overlooking the fact that the chairman ruled the motion null and void due to the new information. No appeal of the chairman's ruling was made so it's not appropriate for us to say that the chairman's ruling is somehow nullified. The chairman's ruling was incorrect but it was his/her ruling nonetheless.-Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted August 25, 2011 at 01:01 PM Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 at 01:01 PM bigdaddy says the chair "indicated to (him)" that the motion was nullified. Lord knows how it was indicated ( a nod, a wink, head shake, private comment), but as I get more used to how details/stories slowly unfold here, I wouldn't be surprised if this was not a ruling by the chair in a meeting at all. Wouldn't be surprised if it was, either!So, if the chair did rule the motion was nullified, can a point of order on that ruling still be raised? Would that ruling constitute a continuing breach because it would violate the fundamental principle of majority rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigdaddy Posted August 25, 2011 at 01:20 PM Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 at 01:20 PM Well, since I record the meetings, I will provide a verbatim transcript of the interaction (sans names) at the meeting. In the parenthesis are the unspoken protocol of the meeting.CHAIR: OK, well then we’re closed on that. We can void the motion to pay for the classes because the classes are free and nobody wants to stay for the dinner. So, closed subject.RECORDING SECRETARY (stands and salutes chair and is recognized by return salute): Is the earlier motion...CHAIR: It's nullified.RECORDING SECRETARY: OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted August 25, 2011 at 01:39 PM Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 at 01:39 PM At this point, bigdaddy, just move on knowing he can't do what he did and you guys have to speak up next time. Since his announcement has no real effect don't dwell on it.He could have:1) Sought unanimous consent to rescind the motion (which might be what he was doing, but it sounds far worse than that).2) Suggest someone move to rescind the motion.3) Suggest someone move to reconsider the vote.4) Or nothing since the motion really wasn't applicable any longer.He didn't do any of it, but make sure he does next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted August 26, 2011 at 12:17 AM Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 at 12:17 AM So, if the chair did rule the motion was nullified, can a point of order on that ruling still be raised?Possibly, although in this instance, there appears to be no point in doing so since the effect is the same either way.Would that ruling constitute a continuing breach because it would violate the fundamental principle of majority rules?I believe that, depending on the circumstances, it might constitute a continuing breach, although I'm having a hard time pinpointing the exact reason why. Your reason sounds as good as any. Again, in this particular instance, it's probably best for the assembly to just let it go.Well, since I record the meetings, I will provide a verbatim transcript of the interaction (sans names) at the meeting. In the parenthesis are the unspoken protocol of the meeting.CHAIR: OK, well then we’re closed on that. We can void the motion to pay for the classes because the classes are free and nobody wants to stay for the dinner. So, closed subject.RECORDING SECRETARY (stands and salutes chair and is recognized by return salute): Is the earlier motion...CHAIR: It's nullified.RECORDING SECRETARY: OK.Although he didn't quite use the right language (mainly, he never made it clear he was making a ruling), it seems to me that the chair (improperly) ruled the motion null and void. Since this has the same effect as doing nothing, however, pursuing it now seems pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted August 26, 2011 at 12:57 PM Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 at 12:57 PM the effect of the improper ruling might not be meaningless, as even if the training program itself were free, there might be incidental costs such as food, travel that might be covered, depending on the wording of the original motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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